Help Me Stop Going Down This Rabbit Hole

[Tinyflame]

ETA it's very difficult to believe non-abusive people, about 'who' or 'how' we are. You've probably revealed much worse to your T, & they draw the conclusion you are not 'too much'. :hug:

 

[sun seeker]

Thank you @Justmehere. There are some good points there. She has been used to me not standing up for myself, and maybe the fact that I am feels threatening to her. I am doing a lot of therapy and moving through my issues. She isn't able to do that so much right now. I am wondering if in a way she feels resentful or jealous of that.

She responds with saying she doesn't mind supporting you? That's almost crazy making... It makes sense you feel so crappy right now

If I listen to the old broken records my brain is playing, one of them is "I can't be good enough no matter how hard I try."

I've tried to the point of making myself sick. That's plenty hard enough.

I told her, whatever it is she feels she is doing that makes things so unbalanced, to please stop doing them right away. I'd rather not have her "support" if it comes with this kind of price.

 

[sun seeker]

ou've probably revealed much worse to your T, & they draw the conclusion you are not 'too much'.

Yes, he continues to amaze me that way.

 

[sun seeker]

we would have to feel we deserve something to be angry, as she is

I think actually she doesn't feel she deserves help, and she is projecting her own low self worth issues onto me by claiming I'm not helping her. She sees me making progress in setting boundaries and asking for/getting help, and wishes she could do that too. She's trying to pull me back into my old patterns because they are more comfortable for her (like, we can feel worthless together). I guess that's what they call codependence.

 

[Tinyflame]

It's good to have boundaries & giving you a guilt trip instead of thankfulness is incorrect of her. It's a self-centric view on her part.

You've done nothing wrong to open your home & heart. And having your own limitations- knowing them- which you've conveyed respectfully, is literally 'ok' & good.

 

[Tinyflame]

Idk, but you can't know what she thinks, you can only try to be healthy.

I just know, not feeling deserving of help for myself, doesn't generate in to demand or expectation. I may have disappointment if I allow myself to hope & feel I've become 'too much' or failed again (am hopeless), but not expectation nor a 'look what I do for others', feeling.

 

[sun seeker]

And having your own limitations- knowing them- which you've conveyed respectfully, is literally 'ok' & good.

Thank you. :-)

Now, what are we going to do to help you know this is true for you too?

 

[Justmehere]

Yes, he continues to amaze me that way.

He is amazing. But he's only reflecting what is true back to you. You are actually not "too much" for healthy people at all. :hug:

 

[Sideways]

Late to the party, but wanted to add, for what it's worth, those feelings that you're a worthless so and so, it's so normal for our old paradigms to kick in when we're starting to change ourselves and our lives for the better. The feelings are complete BS, they're just the feelings that your brain is familiar with, and used to use to make sense of distressing situations. So,

"Thanks brain, but I've worked hard to figure out that stuff isn't true any more, and I'm going to pass on resorting to those as a coping mechanism this time."

And I for one have heaps of confidence in you that you can, and you'll get past this. As we go through recovery, we change. You've changed. You're getting so much better (even by your own account) at identifying your needs and setting boundaries to protect those needs. That's HUGE! You realise that's huge, right??

And for all that your brain is knee-jerking back to the old BS about how useless you are(n't), there's other feelings now as well. There's anger. I could be way off here, but it sounds to me like you're angry because she's not respecting your new healthy boundaries- you're angry on your own behalf. That's because part of you knows, despite what your head is saying, that actually, "I'm worth being angry for". And you absolutely are.

I'm truly sorry if this relationship doesn't survive how much you've changed and grown. There will be others to fill it's place. You're doing awesome. Despite your head, you're actually doing really awesome.

 

[sun seeker]

"Thanks brain, but I've worked hard to figure out that stuff isn't true any more, and I'm going to pass on resorting to those as a coping mechanism this time."

Thank you! Do you mind if I write that out and stick it on my fridge as a reminder?

I actually notice that when I work on stuff in therapy, a situation will often come up in my life that mirrors it, sort of to test whether I've gotten the point. In this case, I was taking a lot of time to learn about boundaries. It seems to me the universe decided to press the point so I'd get it and move on to the next thing. (Let the next thing come gently, please!) This is a really good illustration of why it is important to set boundaries as soon as we become aware of the need for them, rather than waiting until others have gotten used to encroaching on what after all they never realized wasn't theirs to begin with. This would have been a whole lot easier if I had spoken up a long time ago and said, "A few nights a week means two, not four, and I need you to clean up the kitchen when you're done using it" or whatever.

You are actually not "too much" for healthy people at all

I had to think about this a minute, because I usually think of "healthy" as synonymous with "normal." As in, those who would have no idea what it's like to have PTSD, and who have many times told me I'm too much. But healthy doesn't mean that, does it? It means having done enough of your own healing work to know who you are, what your boundaries are, and to have something left to give out of compassion, not obligation. My therapist fits all of that, and he doesn't think I'm too much.

That's HUGE! You realise that's huge, right??

It took me a while, but it's beginning to dawn on me. The next step will be speaking up as soon as I realize I need to, instead of letting things get to this point. I've been practicing this with a client, who is responding a whole lot better than my friend did.

you're angry on your own behalf

Yes, that is new for me, and actually I only allowed it for moments before turning it against myself. That's why I posted this thread, for some feedback on what is really happening here.

My therapist seems to think I am worth getting angry for. (Not about this situation in particular, but about my childhood.) Sometimes it takes a healthy person priming the pump.

I'm truly sorry if this relationship doesn't survive how much you've changed and grown.

Sigh. Yes, me too. But it was starting to feel like the basis of the relationship was supporting each other in staying the same. I want to change and grow.

Thank you for all the support. Truly. :-)

 

[scout86]

There are a lot of ways of helping someone. Giving them exactly what they think they want is only one of them and it's not always the best one.

She got a job that requires a long commute that's bad in the winter? With the intention of what? Living with you for as long as she has the job? I can see doing it until she finds a more convenient place to live. Maybe even once in a great while in the event of bad weather. But all the time? That's a bit much even if she DIDN'T make you miserable when she's there. You aren't being unreasonable, she is. You don't owe her free rent for the rest of her life for helping you out. Actually, the people I consider my friends, I don't think any of us actually keep score on who's done what for who. It's not important because you don't take advantage of your friends.

As far as her reaction goes, consider that she might not be in a very good place and either might not have realized how she came off, or she might not have had real good control over how she was coming off. It's possible she regrets it, or will. (Speaking as someone who loses my temper now and then. And, occasionally, under stress reacts in ways I later wish I hadn't.)

There's something I've been noticing lately. Haven't got it sorted out yet, but it might apply here. You know that "black & white thinking" deal? Have you noticed how often someone has an issue of some sort with their T, they bring a question to the forum, and a high percentage of people quickly go to "You need to fire that T!"? Well, I started to notice it not long ago. And, sometimes that's the answer. And, sometimes, the poster wasn't seeing things clearly and the problem wasn't the T at all. And sometimes something else. But, what's been interesting me is how often we make assumptions and pick a side actually without much of anything to bring up a reality check. I guess what I'm saying is "Life is complicated". You tend to leap to "It's all my fault!" I get that. I do it too. So do lots of us. From there, it's "It's all HER fault!", and maybe it is. And maybe it's more complicated. It definitely doesn't have to be one or the other. And your friend probably isn't any better at this than you are. I don't know if that's applicable at all or if I explained it coherently either.

Anyway, rabbit holes are for rabbits and YOU are a sun seeker! :)

 

[sun seeker]

And maybe it's more complicated.

It is complicated. And I agree with you on not keeping score of who does what for whom. I started getting indignant about her insisting that she does more for me than the other way around, but I don't want to get into nitpicking about it. It feels petty and childish and I won't sink that far. What I do think, and said as much, is that if she feels she is doing more than she wants to be doing, she should stop. That goes for anyone, including me. We're responsible for what we do, and if we are resenting doing it, we need to stop. The lesson in this for me is to speak up sooner.

She is basically a good person. She is seeing this situation through tinted lenses, and I don't think anything I say is going to change that. All I can do is decide how much I am willing to give.

She got a job that requires a long commute that's bad in the winter? With the intention of what? Living with you for as long as she has the job?

You'd kind of have to know the area. It's very rural. She owns a house and her family is there, so it's not so easy to just move to town. The job is also time limited. Unless of course she gets another contract.