13 Reasons Why. On Netflix

[NoWhereKnowWhere]

I was just watching 13 reasons why on Netflix (binge watched the whole lot in one go). Holy shit finally something from what I feel is my point of view. It feels like it isn't just rape scenes for the sake of it though it's more.. it's real it's from the survivors point of view. This whole thing feels like it was written for me from a victims point of view rather than the perpetrator for a change.

I did find it intensely triggering and it has caused me distress but for the first time I thought good because it will cause muggles distress too finally they will have a peek into this world. And see that one night one rape will change everything for ever.

It resonates with me deeply and that feeling of no other option but suicide, I totally get it especially at that time of life. When no longer a child yet not quite an adult and having to deal with grown up shit way above your head.

I just thought it was good anyone else watch it? What did you think?

 

[Casey_03]

Funny you should post this. I just started watching it and was thinking about posting about it. I'm only a few episodes in, but to be honest it's kind of pissing me off. I mean, I like that it brings up a lot of things that teenagers should be more aware of -- bullying, objectification of women, etc. But I don't like that it seems to romanticize/glorify this girl's suicide. And maybe it gets grittier in the later episodes and that will change .... but for now I am irritated with that aspect of it. Because I feel like teenage girls may watch it and think this Hannah girl is so cool for being so clever with these tapes. I guess it seem to me like they painted a picture about suicide that's a little too rosy. But I haven't gotten to the rape scene yet, so maybe that will change.

 

[walksthrufire]

Any opinions on in general if suicide is "for attention"? It seems to be a common theme in the mini series that what the girl did was being perceived by the majority as and act of histrionics, and narcissism as opposed to an absolute need to end her suffering in life. Which is the way I always perceived suicide. In a sense while her last act was to record these tapes calling out all the people that hurt her enough that she would have that much suffering it's very much so the obvious need to immortalize one's self whether they can continue with life or not. And while I know I might get called out on pre-countering someone's argument, she did not die with only the suffering of her high school experiences, she was already going to die with the guilt of committing suicide a long with that and in knowing that she made the tapes and died with that guilt also. So while it seems in this story we're watching that one of protagonists is actually very antagonistic (from death) I think it's important to notice that all of the characters have that hint to them. It is a story with a lot of conflict that builds quickly making certain climaxes paramount. What I'm praying of 13 Reason Why is that people look past the hateful words of the actual antagonists of the stories (She's lying. She was always doing it all for attention. She was a slut!) is the suffering that occurs before a person commits suicide, and often times that suffering feels a lot like guilt. Because like they say..."Why would a dead girl lie?" The truth is that the suicide in this story does appear in many ways to be a case of histrionics adorning a messiah complex. The facts are we don't have to allow our perceptions to stigmatize suicide, personality disorders, or psych complexes. What we can look at more so is that this girl is bullied in her death and it is not something that was needed. But I'm just half way through and about to turn it back on to finish it up.

In short, she died to bring attention to bullying and what that really can do to someone.

 

[Casey_03]

In a sense while her last act was to record these tapes calling out all the people that hurt her enough that she would have that much suffering it's very much so the obvious need to immortalize one's self whether they can continue with life or not.

Yeah, it's the aspect of the tapes that really bothers me. Because she spends all this energy getting revenge from beyond the grave with these tapes, but they don't show her putting much energy into getting revenge/taking a stand while she's alive. Which I think would be a hell of a lot more empowering.

I'm not sure about the histrionic aspect. I think one of the strong points of the story is the fact that her suicide took everyone by surprise -- precisely because she wasn't making a big fuss calling for help when she was alive. I think the writers intentionally did it the way to call attention to the fact that people can be hurting even if they don't show it. But at the same time, it makes the whole plot seem a lot less realistic to me, because they don't show her trying to get help while she's alive. (At least, if they do, I haven't gotten to that point yet, and i'm about 6 episodes in). It does sort of piss me off that she's not shown standing up for herself. I can't help but feel like that's a bit sexist; they portray her as a helpless creature who can only cry in response to things rather than doing anything about it. (Though I guess maybe that is a reality for some teenage girls? That they don't know what to do/how to respond?)

I don't really know what my thoughts are. I'm still evaluating. But either way, I think it's good this show is out there, it'll at least make people discuss the topic of bullying and suicide.

 

[walksthrufire]

Yeah, it's the aspect of the tapes that really bothers me. Because she spends all this energy getting...

Through out the story line parents responsible adult parties etc. are shown to be ignorant of the conflicts/activities with their children. The entire story happens after she died and the scenes with her in it a lot of the time are the perception of the main character (boy listening to the tapes) there's not exactly nothing shown that she did to stand up for herself, in fact there are flashback scenes showing her confronting a bully in life on occasion. I'm not really a Devil's Advocate here. I'm a suicide survivor a long with much else. I just plea that people look past things that are only stigmatic. Sometimes sitting and watching something (anything it can be an on going social conflict in real life that you can't step into) and validating yourself by saying not only is that part wrong but this whole thing could be very very wrong and letting yourself know you're right will teach you to walk away. And what she did with tapes was portrayed by some characters (reminder, these characters are highschoolers) as "revenge" it was also drawing attention to the bullying problem among her peers. So, like I say, Messiah complex. It doesn't have to be stigmatized.

 

[Casey_03]

I guess I just don't really see shouting at someone as standing up for herself. I mean, it definitely is standing up for oneself, in general, but compared to all the energy she put into the tapes? It doesn't seem realistic. In the tapes, she comes off as a very strong, sassy teenage girl. So I guess it'd seem more realistic to me if it did show her taking more of a stand while alive (and when I say taking a stand, I mean more than just shouting at someone. Like, fighting back against the bullies by, say, posting embarrassing photos of them when they were younger and had ridiculous haircuts. Or at the very least by telling someone about what was happening! I mean, some sleaze grabs her ass and she tells no one? Some guy tries to assault her in a diner and she doesn't tell anyone? Someone spreads lies about her having sex in a park and she doesn't even refute it? It doesn't seem realistic to me for her character to not do anything, considering how she comes off in the tapes. I think it's more the fault of the writers than anything else. There was that one scene where she "stalks" the guy who was stalking her -- which is good, that's what i'd expect from her character. But then she saves all of that just for the tapes and offs herself? Not realistic. It almost seems like it would have been more believable if there was more going on in her life to complicate things.

** I'll issue a disclaimer here -- I'm not saying that all victims of assault should tell someone about it, otherwise it's "not real." I understand that a lot of victims stay silent, for myriad reasons. But in this show, given the character of the girl as portrayed by the writers, it seems quite out of character for her to do essentially nothing and then off herself.

 

[Friday]

@Casey_03 I'm someone people IRL generally think of as "will stand up for herself". (Which I know because of the copius feedback I've gotten over the years. Which has always made me tilt my head*). Mostly because I've always done it for others. Both the classic "I ain't afraid of conflict" will cheerfully dive in where angels are afraid to tread momentary & usually meaningless things (get in the middle of a fight; stand up on the nearest piece of furniture & read a whole group of people the riot act; have a calm and reasoned discussion; aka physical violence, verbal, & unpopular positions)... But more importantly? The far more substantial series of things that actually provide real and lasting change. They aren't flashy, and are usually tedious and seemingly basic, but someone in crisis usually cannot do for themselves.

* The truth is I would stand up for anyone except myself. ((Until the sole gift of an abusive relationship, which taught me to stand up for myself. But I'm still really bad at it.))

If I had poured even a fraction of the energy I spent doing everything but standing up for myself? <low whistle> I can't even begin to imagine how different my life would be. Like I said, I do it now, but still suck at it. I don't ask for help (I'm trying to learn how to, but most of the time it doesn't even occur to me). I have an almost impossible time talking about problems in the present tense (only after I've solved them, or there is nothing to be done). And a bunch of other things. And I'm in my 30s. As a teenager? Pfft. I was about a zillion times worse.

I don't think it's super-uncommon for people to do the "I will pour energy into everything but that which would help me" thing? Which would be part of why so many helping professions use outreach... Trying to get people to come to them. Not advertising, but outreach. The whole "Yo! There's a different/better way! Over here! You don't have to live that way! There are more options than you think! You don't have to do this on your own!"

So I suspect the writers may be trying to draw on that aspect; not only do a lot of people not report / ask for help, but spend *massive* amounts of time/energy doing things that either don't help, or ultimately end up hurting them. Like if you spend a ton of time planning your suicide? Is that helping you, or ultimately just making your suicide the single most likely thing you will do? Even if -in theory- you want to live? If all your energy is being poured into planning your death/revenge? Which is more likely? ^^^ I haven't see the show so these are just suppositions from my own experience & observation.

 

[I need to heal]

I guess I just don't really see shouting at someone as standing up for herself. I mean, it definitely...

When I made the healthy decision to not go back to the domestic violence I had been subjected to, I remember the escalation of fear, that hypervigilance of having to stay alert, wondering what we would be subjected with next, bullies always find a way to meddle & intervene with your life, the attempts to speak out, stand up & fight back.... over time just see you become worn down. Their goal is to destroy - whether it be mentally, physically, financially, narcissists play games with you. That's why they ask all the questions about you - how you think & feel, what you like/dislike - they prey on your vulnerabilities. It is more than just fight or flight, unrelenting attacks on your character, ability, personality, the confusion they cause can also see you freeze. This girl became stuck, frozen in fear from shame, the worry of what & who was going to try & hurt her next; probably undiagnos d trauma that led to PTSD, the futility of her situation, that no one could really empathize or understand, simply saw her lose hope - Suicide was her only salvation.

 

[walksthrufire]

There are a lot of hints at slut shaming surrounding her suicide. People need to keep in mind, its fictional high schoolers, she made the tapes as an attempt to immortalize herself like almost everyone tries to do when they see their death is near. It's just another part of the psychology of dying, and the need to immortalize oneself is always there. Take note the symbolism of her death being so sudden she did not yet have a grave stone. Tapes are just another form of suicide notes.

What I'm trying to do is draw attention away from victim as an antagonist because it is important to see her as a victim.

There's a lot of talk here in this forum that is us trying to define what "assertive behavior" is, more over we keep pointing out when she isn't. She's a teenager, her levels can't be held to the same standards as an adult. Her assertive behavior is in her tapes. That she made those tapes is her saying "I could not take it anymore. I still have something to say." A lot of what people are seeing of her that they're critical of is that her behaviors are passive aggressive. I see a driven young woman.

 

[Casey_03]

@walksthrufire I definitely don't disagree with you. My comments were made merely from the standpoint of a writer, analyzing the screenwriting and character construction. I wasn't analyzing her from the viewpoint of psychology, or as if she's a real person. I just wanted to clarify that so it doesn't seem like I'm "blaming the victim" in any way.

 

[Chiqui]

I feel so down since I saw the serie. So many flash back about people and situations...I was bullied and called bich, puta, since I was thirteen ( even though I have my first «complete» sexual relationship when I was 18. They wrote it on the walls, on the streets, with my full name. No even my parents, supossed friends, male and female, teachers...they did NOTHING for a shy and alone teen with excelent grades that went down.. My parents kept silent and blamed me «something you probably have done for this...», so so alone for 4 years afterwards. Isolated. Blamming myself. Depression and anxiety attacks. Dangerous behavior...suicidal thoughts, spirit broken, lots of anger. Art saved me then, and now. Death alive, same as Hannah. I feel THAT emptiness now, hope I can relise this sadness and isolation soon

 

[Punky143]

13 Reasons Why. Netflix. Should be eye opening but its not. I've chronicled my life through journaling and have always mentioned if anything should happen then, have spoken to each person close to me letting them know it wasn't their fault. Because I have almost died 3x without intent and wanted to many more. Interesting flick though.