2 PTSD sufferers in 1 rel'ship

[LovingH]

Does anyone have experience, being someone w PTSD and in a rel'ship with a significant other who ALSO has PTSD?

I am crazy about my ex. I love him so much. The first 6 months were amazing. Then he had some problems w me he was afraid to approach me with. He projected his abusive ex onto me--she would get mad at him whenever he criticized her. So instead, he got cold and distant. That triggered my PTSD from previous rel'ships where I was abandoned.

Everything blew up into a big mess, where he ignored my IMs and txt msgs, which is unlike him, which prompted me to harshly break up with him.

I immediately regretted it. I should've recognized that we were both triggering each other, and suggest we get into couples counseling...or I could go w him ot see his therapist (he sees someone weekly.)

Instead, I tried to make amends for my behavior, and met with him to discuss. It went REALLY well. I was so happy and hopeful that we could work things out. I apologized..we moved forward, deciding to meet weekly (as friends, FOR NOW, as he put it ).

Next time we hung out--dinner and a movie, it was more like a "date." It went well until after the movie, walking to my car, he lost it.Broke down. Freaked out. Cried. Kept talking about his ex (she killed herself on his birthday.) Said me breaking up w him so harshly, made him worry I'd "stab him in his sleep."

Total projection.

I felt like the best thing to do was sit, and hold his hand, and just listen. I told him I wasn't gonna bail on him, nor would I ever break up with him in such a harsh fashion again (I had collected his things at my house and had him pick them up.)

I honestly meant it.

However, as committed as I was to working things out, I did not know how to handle all the projection of his ex onto me. In addition, he started kissing me, and said later it was cuz he was "using sexual gratification to deal with past pain."

Another thing I did NOT know how to deal with.

I started thinking, he needs to work out his issues from his prior rel'ship..maybe he is not ready for a rel'ship..we IM'd about it. He said he doesn't trust his judgment..he was gonna MARRY his ex, and she cut herself to manipulate him.

I know my PTSD issues are bad, but I didn't suffer nearly as much as he did, in my past.

I truly wanted what was best for him. I figured he needed space to work on some stuff. I asked him, should I move on? Or wait for him?

He said move on cuz he didn't want to "build something just to get over his past". And he didn't want me to wait, cuz that would be unfair to me.

I said ok.

But honestly, I wasn't ok with it.

I tried talking to him, a week later..I'm still confused why he keeps pushing me away. He was hostile and basically accused me of "wanting to fight", and being manipulative of him..it was such a hurtful letter. I can only feel he's confused, and once again projecting things onto me.

At this point, I don't know how to approach him. I'm getting into counseling myself asap..I was thinking we could meet w a counselor w no other goal in mind than to just...get rid of the animosity and bad blood btwn us, because that is hurting me worse than anything..knowing he is so angry at me.

oh btw, he said, because we aren't in a relationship anymore, he doesn't "owe me any explanations." And that was incredibly hurtful to me. Felt like abandonment again.

 

[Friday]

Most of my relationships have been with people with my brand of crazy.

I married someone though, who didn’t have PTSD, but did do this... in spades.

and once again projecting things onto me.

It became one of his ‘get out of jail free’ cards (as well as an abusive childhood, leading to my excusing all kinds of dumbf*ck bullshit I never should have. 20/20 hindsight).

So I would both caution & question whether you really want to be with someone who doesn’t know you, doesn’t see you, & doesn’t believe you. (And whether or not that combo ties into your own trauma history, it certainly did, mine.)

Like I said, I’d mainly been with people with my brand of crazy, so the momentary mixups that happen as past & present overlay? Pfft. No big deal. That happens. Doesn’t bother me a bit. So I made a very big mistake and conflated the two things. Because the whole transference thing? Honestly seeing you as someone else the majority of the time? That’s where your arguments come from, that’s where they go when they’re mad, that’s how you’re seen by them? It’s a vastly different creature. It’s simply being a warm body, an object, a thing that someone else is transposed onto. A mask, of someone else’s creation, tied on your face. You’re not you, at least not to them, you’re just a prop.

Because the fights/arguments/accusations are so bizarrely left field (Dude. That’s not me. Again. Hello!) It let me both keep my self confidence and remain distant emotionally, even if I got het up at the time -being treated or thought of as someone else- as there was still this “cushion” of “I know 100% that you are wrong.” The same way that if someone accused me of having a flying car driven by seals with wings. (Um. No.) wouldn’t hit home the same way someone calling my car a piece of shit, or too good for me, or saying I was a bad driver would. Those things are all in the realm of possibility, not matter how violently I disagree, but flying seals are not.

Just a word of warning from the other side.

Not saying you can’t or shouldn’t do this relationship... people have different needs & wants... just that the ins and outs of day to day living with someone who sees someone else when they look at you? Has some serious pitfalls I’d never even have thought to look for, when I started out.

 

[LovingH]

Wow, thx for your reply. It really hit a nerve with me. One of my friends said, imagine you are angry at this person, but she's dead. So you can't address her, or question her, or confront her. My friend could easily see where my ex transferred his anger onto me, as I'm the first person he's had a serious rel'ship wtih, since his ex's suicide.

Also, he was hesitant to talk about his issues cuz he was afraid i'd break up with him, and look, I did just that. Only thing is..I did NOT break up with him BECAUSE he had problems with me and finally told me what they were..I broke up with him for many reasons beyond that. But mostly because, he just went incommunicado on me, and that triggered my abandonment anxiety (too many previous men have cheated on me and, when with the women they cheated on me with, ignored me..blew me off.)

Kinda hard to explain that to someone who's operating purely on impulse that has arisen from trauma.

But yeah, his last IM reply to me sounded a lot like his therapist wrote it. He accused me of "emotional gymnastics" and said "you're only comfortable with a narrative where there's a bad guy and a good guy and of course I'm the bad guy." ..like you pointed out..I was like HUH? Where is THAT coming from? And I do think it was directed twds the phantom/ghost ex.

I think I could only be with him, if we could go to counseling together. At this point, I can't even COMMUNICATE with him, period, cuz he thinks ANY attempt at communication is me wanting to fight (once again, projection..I've really only been loving with him, cuz that's truly how I feel, post-impulsive-breakup.)

 

[EveHarrington]

Said me breaking up w him so harshly, made him worry I'd "stab him in his sleep."

Total projection.

Total projection?

No.

It seems to me that you’re completely unaware of the fact that you broke his heart. His fear is most likely NOT “totally” because of his ex, but also due to the harsh manner in which you broke up with him. (This hurts, right?)

That is, his fears are not completely misplaced. You’ve hurt him before. Once bitten, twice shy.

I told him I wasn't gonna bail on him, nor would I ever break up with him in such a harsh fashion again (I had collected his things at my house and had him pick them up.)

I honestly meant it

It doesn’t matter what you say, it matters what you do.

Your behavior has shown that you will indeed act impulsively and dump him when you get triggered.

He’s right to be skeptical.

He said move on cuz he didn't want to "build something just to get over his past". And he didn't want me to wait, cuz that would be unfair to me.

I said ok.

But honestly, I wasn't ok with it.

I tried talking to him, a week later..I'm still confused why he keeps pushing me away. He was hostile and basically accused me of "wanting to fight", and being manipulative of him..it was such a hurtful letter. I can only feel he's confused, and once again projecting things onto me.

Uhm, boundaries?

He’s told you how he feels, so why aren’t you listening?

He’s told you to move on. He is pushing you away in reflection of his words. Why aren’t you listening to him???

Can I ask who is initiating contact, you or him?

At this point, I don't know how to approach him.

You don’t.

You leave him alone.

I was thinking we could meet w a counselor w no other goal in mind than to just...get rid of the animosity and bad blood btwn us, because that is hurting me worse than anything..knowing he is so angry at me.

He’s told you he doesn’t want to be with you.

He’s pushing you away.

Does he need to rent a billboard and pay for a radio spot in order to get you to understand that he wants to be left alone?

Seriously, everything you’re doing screams “what not to do when you want to be with someone who has PTSD.”

You’re not listening to him.

I repeat, you’re NOT listening to him!

oh btw, he said, because we aren't in a relationship anymore, he doesn't "owe me any explanations." And that was incredibly hurtful to me. Felt like abandonment again.

No, he doesn’t “owe” you anything, ESPECIALLY in light of the fact that you dumped him, and you broke his heart.

Only thing is..I did NOT break up with him BECAUSE he had problems with me and finally told me what they were..I broke up with him for many reasons beyond that.

It doesn’t matter why you broke up with him.

You broke his heart.

All the explanations in the world won’t suddenly make him think that you won’t harshly dump him again.

But mostly because, he just went incommunicado on me, and that triggered my abandonment anxiety (too many previous men have cheated on me and, when with the women they cheated on me with, ignored me..blew me off.)

You are fawning like crazy right now.

Been there, done that, have the tee shirt. (I write about fawning every so often, it’s one of my hardest traits to overcome.)

Fight/flight/fawn/freeze......are you familiar? Yes, it’s 4 F’s, not 2.

Your abandonment trigger is throwing fawn into overdrive. You won’t listen to what he says, you won’t follow his actions......you just have magical thinking that everything will be fine if you can just get him into counseling for the two of you, and you’ll live happily ever after. (I need to add, do NOT go see his therapist. His therapist is sacred, you don’t cross that line.)

Fawning, trying to get him back regardless of his desires, makes YOU happy, but again you’re not listening to him.

Kinda hard to explain that to someone who's operating purely on impulse that has arisen from trauma.

Again, nope.

Please stop blaming everything on him and his ex.

You dumped him.

Harshly dumped him.

Anyone without PTSD would be hesitant to get back to you.

Nobody wants another broken heart.

He accused me of "emotional gymnastics"

Sounds like it to me.

I think I could only be with him, if we could go to counseling together.

But again, you’re not listening to him! (Major major red flag.)

(once again, projection..I've really only been loving with him, cuz that's truly how I feel, post-impulsive-breakup.)

Relationships don’t work like that. You can’t sit there and say “forget the fact that I trampled all over your heart, only pay attention to the stuff after that”. Nope. It all gets taken into account.

I think that it would be a good idea for you to take responsibility for your own behaviors and stop blaming it all on his projection when it’s not all about that.

 

[LovingH]

"That is, his fears are not completely misplaced. You’ve hurt him before. Once bitten, twice shy."

Wait, what?? So, it's not totally irrational to go from "you broke up with me" to "you might MURDER me"??? Come on.

Breaking up with someone is one thing. HOMICIDE is another.

I certainly never thought that any of my exes who dumped me, then tried to get back with me, would ever MURDER ME IN MY SLEEP.



"It doesn’t matter what you say, it matters what you do."

Yeah, well, then why was he so amenable to dating me AFTER we broke up, then?



"He’s told you how he feels, so why aren’t you listening?"

How he felt seemed to change with the wind. He waited til after deciding he could work things out with me..2 dates we had, after the break-up, to completely decide I must be an abusive b**** like his ex. NM that 6 months of being with me and getting close to me didn't show any behavior similar to her, whatsoever.

"He’s told you to move on. He is pushing you away in reflection of his words. Why aren’t you listening to him???"

Did you read what he said very clearly, or no? The reason he gave for wanting to move on was all centered on him trying to do me a favor and not "using" me to get over his ex. It really had nothing to do with me breaking up with him. It screamed "I'm afraid I'm projecting my prior relationship onto you."

"Can I ask who is initiating contact, you or him?"

I made it clear. I did.


"He’s told you he doesn’t want to be with you."

He said "I don't want to build something just to get over the pain of my past." --that's a lot different than saying "I don't want to be with you."

"No, he doesn’t “owe” you anything, ESPECIALLY in light of the fact that you dumped him, and you broke his heart."

Yes, and AFTER I did that, he was willing to work things out with me. So, I am completely confused by the mixed messages he gave me. The whole REASON I dumped him, was because he pushed me away. Got cold and distant, as soon as the past seemed to be getting in the way of us.

"......you just have magical thinking that everything will be fine if you can just get him into counseling for the two of you, and you’ll live happily ever after. (I need to add, do NOT go see his therapist. His therapist is sacred, you don’t cross that line.)"

No, I don't. I don't think everything will be peachy if we get counseling. I'm old enough and been through enough difficult relationships to a) not think it's gonna cure everything, b) realize the hard work involved in doing so, and c) have plenty of other men after me at this point, including one of MY exes whom I had a pretty decent, non-toxic relationship with who told me if this guy ever hurt me,I could go back to him.

It's not about abandonment, at this point. My abandonment fear kicks in DURING a relationship, not after.

It's not just about getting him back but about the fact that we ended everything in conflict and animosity, and while there are some people I don't care about how things end, with him I do. It's messed up that we have bad blood btwn us and the only way I can see us even talking about that, and getting over that, is communicating with the aid of a therapist. It doesn't have to be his. It could be whichever therapist I end up seeing, or an entirely new one.

"Please stop blaming everything on him and his ex."

I took total responsibility for breaking up with him, so how am I doing that?

But when he decides to agree to then work on things with me, and all I hear, post-break-up, are messages that seem meant for HER..it's a bit hard to feel like he isn't now in some dissociative mode where he's saying all the things he wish he could've said to her, and projecting her behavior onto me.

"Anyone without PTSD would be hesitant to get back to you."

He wasn't hesitant, til the 2nd post-break-up date

"Relationships don’t work like that. You can’t sit there and say “forget the fact that I trampled all over your heart, only pay attention to the stuff after that”.

I didn't. I asked for another chance. He gave it to me. Then out of the blue, everything crashed down because he decided that breaking up with him made me someone who would murder him in his sleep.

I would like to know why me attempting to salvage the relationship is 'emotional gymnastics', but him deciding I should move on, after 2 dates where he seemed committed to making things work with me despite me breaking up with him, is not.

 

[EveHarrington]

Please just leave him alone.

He needs time to heal.

If he wants to be with you, he will let you know. Guys are straightforward like that.

 

[LovingH]

Ok. I got you.

I am still gonna get my own therapy..cuz as much work as i have done on myself, this rel'ship really showed me the dangers of lapsing.

I am still sad tho that he harbors anger twds me and am having trouble dealing w that. Esp when so much of our disconnect relates to our individual traumas and past and not about how we feel for each other. :(