A Groundbreaking Court Decision for Vets With PTSD

[JarHed]

I can tell by all the differing responses that this is a very complex issue. One that has no one solution. Or a simple one either. I've lived with the 'crazy vet' thing stamped on me like a scarlet letter. That hasn't helped my condition as you can imagine. I've also had my share of dicey situations with people where I could have 'gone all the way' and almost did. I wish there were just a magic pill we could all take and we'd be 'cured'. Unfortunately, there isn't and never will be.

I know we support each other here and it's a great place to come to, to feel that you're at least among those that are like you and can understand. But are any of us actually getting better? Or are we just learning how to 'maintain an even strain'?

With the media being what it is today, I've already been asked by some people what I think about this situation. I feel like I have to justify my own existence when I do. I hate to see a good man go down because he has this f**ked up condition, that's just wrong in every way that I can think of.

In some ways I still feel like I'm in some foxhole somewhere ducking the shrapnel that's always out there. Sorry for the ramble.

Jar

 

[deborah l. boylan]

We've all had moments when the beast was in control and we were just along for the ride. For me it came in the operating room. I just finally reached the point of no return and lost it. That was the end for me and my career in the Navy. Now, luckily, I'm 9 days away from getting out of this here canoe club and looking forward to not having to face people who haven't got a clue about PTSD everyday. I'm supposed to check-out with the CO. That's so not going to happen. If I have to pull out the "I'm crazier than cat in a room full of rocking chairs" card, so be it. I don't want or need another lecture on how "I'm a disgrace to the uniform and too rigid to be in the Navy" lecture. Screw that!

Back on topic now. The PTSD defense is definitely as slippery slope, as someone has already said. Each case will have to be evaluated on its own merits. Is it a defense or just and excuse? I certainly don't have the answer. I only know that there are days that I could easily choke the living sh*@ out of some jerk for pissing me off, which isn't hard to do, even on a good day. Guess we'll all just have to hunker down and see what the fallout from this case is.

Deb

 

[Ned]

Or are we just learning how to 'maintain an even strain'?

That in itself is better than a poke in the eye. The exchange of views here is, as with a lot of the other threads, bloody useful input.
Does it help beyond the all too knowledgeable community here? On balance, yes. I've had lots of good advice, and it's helped me cope. Learned to live with it to the point of moving on up.
OK, I'll never have the comfy insulation of blissful ignorance again. I miss it. But it's gone.
I hope that we get a due and proper recognition by society one day. The evidence here, of decent people doing their best, has got to help that end. A bit.

 

[reddevil1111]

For me the transformation from Marine back to civvy has been very slow. OCD ...Rigid life style... And the same hard drinking ass kicking marine. Wait i'm old and frail now...no im not! im 19 and the devil himself!!!
That part has been hard enough for me. add into the mix of the PTSD...the anger and rage. The stress dosent overflow, it errupts!
I have played russian roulette alone for over an hour. just drinking shots and trying with a bullet. I cant do like Jimmy and Ned have. I cant keep this at bay or get over it. I do try. But its just not that easy you know?
I know for a fact that it is very wrong but very easy to let the rage take over. Not proud of some of what I have done but it was deserved. Case by case or not. Labeled as a bigger sack of shit that currently...big deal. It wont solve that he comitted murder. I can say I am surprised im not in a cell next to him.
I want off this merry go round...its not fun.

 

[Ned]

No advice Dan, but I think you are tough enough not to be dumb.

 

[Jimmy1]

[quote="Anglesachse, post: 10708"
PTSD makes us react in a very unique way that a lot of people can`t comprehend. But it is still "US" that do the reactions.

Should it be OK for it to be used as a Defence for our actions? F*ck I realy don`t know. I think this is gonna be a minefield not even the EOD bods are gonna want to touch.[/quote]

Angle,

One of the biggest issues I have and still try to deal with the guilt from my actions when in a rage.
For instance, my children copped many a belting, verbal abuse etc, etc, all because I was in a rage which I did not know or comprehend at the time. I remember giving my young fellow a real hiding when he was about 6. Why, because his older step brothers said 'He never gets a belting'. I was in so much of a rage that I went to his room where he was happily playing got him, dragged him in front of his brothers and belted his arse 3 or 4 times.
I still remember it clearly today, how weird, he was screaming 'why'. And all I could say to the other boys was 'Are you happy now'?

That was 8 years ago and I had not been diagnosed at the time.

When I did the PTSD course 4 years ago, the taught us to let go of that guilt and blame it on the disorder. They said we have a recognized psychiatric disorder, and when in a rage cannot control it sometimes. In our country, my spouse is my legally authorized carer, and she has saved the kids bacon many a time by defusing me. I am fortunate to have her.

I still struggle with that explanation an view my self as once being a child abuser. If that were to happen today I he would be taken away from me and I would be facing the law.
I nearly lost it the other day and had my boy held down and fist cocked. Only because he kept pushing and pushing. I warned him to stop, he eventually diffused it only because he could see my white hot fury and that he had pushed too hard.

So I believe if we jump through the hoops, take the recommended medication, and go to therapy, no matter how much cognitive thought process, anger management and the likes we do, if something sets us off, I don't believe we have control. And should not be held accountable or if accountable it should be looked at leniently.

On the flip side, someone who refuses medication and therapy and goes around in a constant state of anger, well they should be looked at differently only because they are knowingly not doing anything towards helping themselves.

And then again, someone who is undiagnosed should be looked at differently again.

Just my opinion.

 

[Anglesachse]

No, you are right Jimmy. Iwas unashamedly Generalising.

With me at the time, I was in total denial. I had walked out of 3 clinics after a week to 10 days each time, because there was f*ckall wrong with me. I wouldn`t even listen to the people around me that I needed help. Just kept on going my way.

So this is where the minefield starts. At the time I was undiagnosed, but then I was also (looking back at it) refusing Therapy, because I was convinced that there was nothing wrong even though everybody around me was saying otherwise.

I realy don`t think it can be quit as clear cut, as we would like it to be

 

[JarHed]

I hope that we get a due and proper recognition by society one day. The evidence here, of decent people doing their best, has got to help that end. A bit.

Hey Ned

Nice post. Very nicely said.

I guess I speak for myself when I say about the fact that this stuff never goes away. And when something like we're discussing here happens it just puts me in a negative nose dive. Sometimes I open a box I have that has all the 'medals' and stuff I got for what I did in 'Nam. I'm both embarissed and confused about it. How can you do the job we've done and then come back to the world and get treated like we do. I didn't run away, I did a job no one else wanted to do, just like us all. Considering everything, it's a miracle that I haven't been in jail or locked away for most of my life. It's that Marine Credo, it stays with you forever. That's not a bad thing. Maybe in some small way it's kept me on the 'straight n' narrow'.

For me this place can be like a love hate relationship; I'm glad that I have a place to go and say my piece and people support that even if they may not agree at times. Let me tell ya'll, that's a rare thing today. Then I hate that I'm so full of rage at times that I feel like my heads going to split wide open and the devil himself is going to jump out. I think ya'll know what I'm talkin' about. It's why I wear a hat.

All things considered; there but for the grace of god to I. Talkin' about this stuff is harder than having to had gone through what I did 'over there'. I sometimes feel like the guy in the greek fable. He did something wrong and for eternity he has to push this enormous boulder up a hill, only for it to roll back to the bottom each time he reaches the top. Guess I'll just keep on pushin'.

Jar

 

[reddevil1111]

On the flip side, someone who refuses medication and therapy and goes around in a constant state of anger, well they should be looked at differently only because they are knowingly not doing anything towards helping themselves

Sod that! Sounds like a judgement on me and I wont have that mate! I dont hold your balls to a fire-Get away from mine!

 

[Jimmy1]

Nah Red, there is a difference between refusing therapy and medication from idiots that don't know what they are talking about and refusing medication and therapy from qualified, experienced psych's and then going around in a constant state of anger.

The USA, UK, and Australia have totally different VA's and totally different access levels to professional help.

I am fortunate to have a good psych, therapist and GP, and be on good medication, but it does not stop me when I am having a bad day. I live in a Garrison City where there are thousands of returning service personnel who need constant help. Where in 4 years I plan to move out of here and away. My only fear is finding someone who will prescribe me with the right medication and finding a good therapist.

So, I pity you guys that have been left in the lurch and have no access to good quality professional help.

The first step always is accepting there is a problem and accepting that you have PTSD. The second step is finding the right medication and therapy that suits you.
I would not blame anyone for walking away from f*ck heads that put us in the same category as the every day Joe.

 

[reddevil1111]

we are square on things Jimmy. I understand you were not talking about me but a generalization on others that dont want help but cry. I do want help and I cry...lol
Sorry If I came off angry, I was. I am not now. I understand what you were trying to say. <Lowers the rifle and scoots off....

 

[Ned]

It's that Marine Credo, it stays with you forever. That's not a bad thing. Maybe in some small way it's kept me on the 'straight n' narrow'.

That's it, what I was trying to say. OK, we're easily triggered. But we are capable of restraint, we use it to our own detriment because we serve, still....

I'm Brit, but the credo is the same. An oath to the Crown, and not to whichever bunch hapens to be in government. I will look after my people.
The service ethos is most definitely what has kept me on the rails. And kept me useful.