Being a Victim/Survivor

[The Albatross]

...All was fine until I was apparently triggered. As a result of that and after a dream I had, I decided that I was a willing participant. It wasn’t so much that I “deserved” it, but that I wanted it to happen.

@piratelady - Not that I totally discount dreams, but I would hesitate to make a decision based on one. Maybe write it out for your shrink ahead of your next appointment?

Something happened for your post to arise, right? But I triggered=>I had a dream=>I decided??? I'd flesh that out and give it a good discussion.

 

[somerandomguy]

I call myself a victim and a survivor most of the time, being sure to use both words, because to me they mean different things.

A "victim" is someone who was preyed upon. There's nothing I can do about that; like it or not, it happened to me. I've been a victim ever since my abuse happened, and I'll always be a victim. That doesn't mean I have to focus on it - and I can see the day coming up when I won't use that word very often, if at all.

A "survivor" is someone who, through tremendous effort, rises up over their victimhood. I feel like I have only been a survivor for a little over a year, when I decided to start working through my trauma.

I don't think either of these terms is a value judgment - they're just descriptions. But they are both the OPPOSITE of "willing participant."

Here's the deal, @piratelady. You were a child. A child, by definition, can't be a willing participant. There's a reason there's a legal age of consent. MY abuse, however, happened in part because I ASKED FOR IT. I was an ADULT.

If *I* don't define myself as a willing participant, even though I ASKED FOR IT, why should YOU define yourself as a willing participant?

 

[piratelady]

With CSA, by law (at least here in the USA), there is no option to be a willing participant (legally), when there’s an adult and a

I get it that I can’t legally consent. But take that away and I wanted it to happen, I think I even enjoyed it. Just because I was a minor doesn’t mean I didn’t want it to happen.

What happens if you change your story so that it’s the same as what happened to you, but you picture someone else going through it (like a sibling, friend, random young child)...?

why should YOU define yourself as a willing participant?

My therapist does this a lot in therapy. For me there is a double standard. I made a choice, I enjoyed what happened. Now if he did that to someone else, that’s not ok. I guess maybe this is where the self-compassion comes in..?

If you take responsibility for abuse that wasn't your fault then it easily starts to become a valid excuse for everything going haywire in life

I guess I don’t understand how it would affect anything else. Sorry if I’m dense.

Maybe write it out for your shrink ahead of your next appointment

so this happened, then I had therapy yesterday. Only I saved this for the very end so I’m left to think about all of this on my own until next Wednesday.

 

[digger]

I struggle with both the words 'victim' or 'survivor' for myself for a number of reasons, but I just wanted to say this...

take that away and I wanted it to happen, I think I even enjoyed it. Just because I was a minor doesn’t mean I didn’t want it to happen.

I made a choice,

Whether you feel you wanted it or enjoyed it, or felt you were a willing participant, the thing is that it shouldn't have been a choice that was available to you. The option to participate shouldn't have been available to you as a minor. Someone else made the decision to allow you to feel you had a choice in something that never should have been an option.

 

[somerandomguy]

Double standards are shitty. But PTSD gives us the gift of hypocrisy. We see things that happened to other people, and we recognize that those things were horrible. We see the same things that happened to ourselves, and somehow it's our own fault they happened and we deserved them. It's the worst thing about PTSD, I think.

I think I even enjoyed it.

And so what if you did?

One reason people thought for so long that men and boys couldn't be raped by women is because, in order for it to happen, they had to have an erection. And erections don't happen if the guy isn't into it, right? This kind of thinking was the usual point of view, even among many support professionals, until about five years ago.

Now you hear this phrase a lot: "An erection isn't consent." Confronted with imminent sexual activity, consensual or not, the body does what it was designed to do. Arousal and orgasm are common, even usual, during forced sexual activity among all genders.

Abusers know this and use it to "prove" to their victims that, since they were aroused, they "must have wanted it." Often, they will make their victims orgasm on purpose just for this reason. But the fact remains that a person who is too young to be able to consent also is too young to determine whether they wanted it or enjoyed it or not.

 

[piratelady]

Whether you feel you wanted it or enjoyed it, or felt you were a willing participant, the thing is that it shouldn't have been a choice that was available to you. The option to participate shouldn't have been available to you as a minor. Someone else made the decision to allow you to feel you had a choice in something that never should have been an option.

Thank you. I get it now. I’ll have to think about all of this for a bit. Thanks.

 

[grit]

Just saw this article and thought about your post. right about the middle it takes how a child may not see abuse and whys.

When You Know You Had a Toxic Parent, but Siblings Disagree

 

[EveHarrington]

I get it that I can’t legally consent. But take that away and I wanted it to happen, I think I even enjoyed it. Just because I was a minor doesn’t mean I didn’t want it to happen.




My therapist does this a lot in therapy. For me there is a double standard. I made a choice, I enjoyed what happened. Now if he did that to someone else, that’s not ok. I guess maybe this is where the self-compassion comes in..?
I guess I don’t understand how it would affect anything else. Sorry if I’m dense.

so this happened, then I had therapy yesterday. Only I saved this for the very end so I’m left to think about all of this on my own until next Wednesday.

So what if you wanted it to happen?

You could have been a five year old who took all her clothes off and ran around naked, you could have been jumping on him/her/whatever and it’s STILL the adult’s responsibility to be a damn adult, which means that adults do not have sex with kids.

Do you understand that adults are held to a higher standard than kids? This is why playground fights as a kid get you grounded but bar room punches as an adult land you in jail.

I go through spells where I want my boyfriend to beat the shit out of me, but he doesn’t, because regardless of what I want, ITS STILL ABUSE.

It doesn’t matter what you want, what you like, what you desire, at the end of the day, certain things are ALWAYS abuse.

 

[piratelady]

Just saw this article and thought about your post.

Thank you. This actually speaks to some other family dynamics I’ve been dealing with also. I’m going to try to save this for therapist and I to discuss after we get through this latest email I’ve sent him

 

[IAHC]

I hope my post doesn’t make anyone mad...

My therapist has worked really hard to get me to see myself as a victim / survivor of abuse. I feel like we’ve been hammering away at that for so long. About a month or two ago I got there. I truly saw myself as a victim / survivor of abuse. With it came a bunch of horrible emotions but I made it through.

All was fine until I was apparently triggered. As a result of that and after a dream I had, I decided that I was a willing participant. It wasn’t so much that I “deserved” it, but that I wanted it to happen.

Anyway, I took that new way of thinking into therapy today. Now that therapy is over I’m left wondering something:

What’s the harm in not seeing myself as a victim / survivor, but rather just seeing myself as a willing participant? I mean, it’s actually a little less distressing.

I have another therapy appointment in two weeks, or I can have one next week if I want. I kind of feel like if I can sort out the above though, I’ll be fine.

I definitely have struggled with my ptsd and seeing myself as a willing participant too. I think for a while it was much easier for me to cope if it was something that was my doing (i.e. something that I could prevent in the future). When I realize that what happened had nothing to do with my decisions, that is a much scarier and more difficult thing to deal with. The only downside to seeing it as being something you were participating in is that cycle of self-blame and negative thoughts. Like guilt and shame for me were the hardest to work through and still are, i think seeing yourself as a willing participant might affect you negatively in self blame. I do very much understand why you see it this way, though, I did for a long time too.

 

[Bristol]

This is something i am working on in T at the moment to. I cant get my head around the idea that my abuser was a bad person, my brain prefers to see it that he was weak and i was persuasive. My T also gets me to turn it round aand imagine another child in that situation, if another child was in that situation its horrific and they should be removed but me? I made it happen.

My T tells me that one day i may just wake up and “get it” or it may be slow going. The thing is that it is an easier place to be to imagine you had some sense of control, it would be a fairly scary place to realise that it would all have happened regardless.

For me, im neither victim or survivor, but maybe one day i will get to the victim stage then i can move onto being a survivor and leaving it all in the past!

 

[Clara1974]

So what if you wanted it to happen?

You could have been a five year old who took all her clothes off and ran around naked, you could have been jumping on him/her/whatever and it’s STILL the adult’s responsibility to be a damn adult, which means that adults do not have sex with kids.

Do you understand that adults are held to a higher standard than kids? This is why playground fights as a kid get you grounded but bar room punches as an adult land you in jail.

I go through spells where I want my boyfriend to beat the shit out of me, but he doesn’t, because regardless of what I want, ITS STILL ABUSE.

It doesn’t matter what you want, what you like, what you desire, at the end of the day, certain things are ALWAYS abuse.

Very well put !!