News Bernie Sanders

[stillstanding2]

My dream team at this point? Hillary and Elizabeth Warren. We are ready for two women to lead the US. Eliz...

Elizabeth Warren would be a great choice, but how vulnerable is her Senate seat to a Republican? We definitely need her in a place to do some good. Same with Bernie. The VP has so little power most of the time, though Joe Biden has been as good as they get.

 

[hodge]

Yeah, good point, StillStanding. We do need her in the Senate, but I feel it would also be awesome if she were vice-president. That could really set her up to be president next time. I don't think she's that old and maybe she could still run in 2024.

 

[stillstanding2]

writing in a third party seemed prudent

But writing in anybody but the Democratic nominee is too dangerous. We simply have no choice, given the hazard of having another Republican **shole. This election may mean all or nothing ever for the middle class.

Our personal disgust with the whole year must not override the emergency intent of stopping the Republican mania. Regardless of the DEM candidate, our responsibility is to the down ballot. Not only is Congress absent, but even the Supreme Court is potentially helpless because of Mitch McConnell's Senate. Obama has struggled so valiantly to keep at least one branch of the government operational, while the rest of our "government" has ground to a screaming halt!

This disgraceful situation is one of (if not THE) most crucial elections in history. The country is boiling with division and hate. There is all likelihood of violence, vote tampering, and general betrayal of the Constitution! We all need to stop the destruction. I will VOTE DEMOCRAT CLEAR DOWN THE BALLOT.

 

[hodge]

Me, too, Still. It's the only way to go to ensure we get a Dem president and maybe retake the House and/or Senate. The Repubs are being really vile in not voting on Obama's nomination, who seems like a really good guy. We need another Dem Supreme Court. The other side has controlled it for way too long. Gave us such gifts as Citizens United. Jeez, what an Orwellian term.

 

[Kintsugi]

But writing in anybody but the Democratic nominee is too dangerous. We simply have no choice, given the hazard of having another Republican **shole.

I repeat:

Afraid of the GOP? No. If Trump were to become president? It could be the most productive political disaster this nation has seen in a long time.

Our personal disgust with the whole year must not override the emergency intent of stopping the Republican mania. Regardless of the DEM candidate, our responsibility is to the down ballot.

Again:

A party loyalist I am not.

This disgraceful situation is one of (if not THE) most crucial elections in history. The country is boiling with division and hate. There is all likelihood of violence, vote tampering, and general betrayal of the Constitution! We all need to stop the destruction.

Let Trump be president... four years of him should scare enough voters away from the GOP. I thought Republicans shutting down the government in 2013 would be enough to shake some humility into them and some fear into their followers, but I was wrong. Perhaps President Trump will do the trick. Four years of him... I guarantee we'll secure 8 years of democratic presidency afterward. Unless Trump is secretly a political mastermind under that tupee, and this circus is all an elaborate act of dumbassery. :roflmao:

Fear is a stupid reason to vote for someone, and it's unamerican. I am not afraid of the repercussions of voting for the person I believe is the best leader for our country.

 

[joeylittle]

If Trump were to become president? It could be the most productive political disaster this nation has seen in a long time.

When I read this, I thought, 'Not since Herbert Hoover' - sometimes, unfortunately, someone needs to be an unequivocal disaster, in order for people to pull it together and make smart choices again. I think Hoover is a pretty good parallel to Trump, in the whole 'zero experience but super-popular' category.

 

[Anarchy]

Who is with me, I'm so excited about Bernie!! I think he is the only person running that will fight for the 99%!!

The Bern has certainly not attracted the Wall Street backing that Killary has - which suggests that he's not all bad.

but, here's a test

Ron Paul was an outsider last time

In an imaginary world where Ron Paul actually got to repeal all of the special privileges, Bern supporters would be free to set up their own communities, set up their own central authority, pay high taxes to that central authority, appoint central planners and socialize their health care, the schooling for their children, re-distribute amongst each other etc. The limits on that being - no initiation of force, and freedom for anyone who wanted to leave one of those communities to leave.

Now put it the other way around

In an imaginary world where Bern is the 'Resident;
would Ron Paul supporters be free to establish their own communities, in which all services are provided by the market and in which there is no initiation of force?

no

all would be roped in to paying (on threat of violence if they refused) into the Bern's centrally planned collective.

There are stable and peaceful examples of communal living - the Amish, the Mennonites, the kibbutz, to list a few. The hippy experiment in communal living didn't survive very well.

IIRC, the Bern, got kicked out of one such commune - for failing to pull his weight in chores and pay his share of bills.

If I was in the united state, I'd be f*cked if I'd let his followers forcibly enrol me in their social experiment - not least because I have no desire to coerce them in any way at all.

 

[Anarchy]

I think Hoover is a pretty good parallel to Trump, in the whole 'zero experience but super-popular' category.

FDR insiders later admitted that FDR pretty much continued all of the Hoover policies

and they were complete failures

In contrast to the 1920 recession, which was much deeper, the non viable projects encouraged by the artificially low interest rates due to the monetary expansion of the war years, were liquidated and capital was re-directed to more closely reflect consumer choices. within 18 months and that recession was over.

That had been the patten with recessions (they were short and sharp) up until hoover and FDR - both of who's policies prevented the re-assignment of capital goods back into line with consumer preferences - and therefore prevented the correction and prolonged the agony for over a decade.

I agree that Trump is a potential disaster (carpet bombing and all) - but so are the other contenders this time.

 

[joeylittle]

Oh, I'm not saying FDR was a saint, @Anarchy - just that the general chaos around the presidential election, and a decline in the overall experience level of the candidates, culminated for a chunk of time in Hoover. And, not all of Hoover was horrible - he was just completely and utterly non-equipped to run a country.

As a nation, we are unwieldy. I think there are many things that Bernie would not know how to do. There are just a few things that I think he'd do incredibly well, and we'd benefit from them, as a nation. The man is nothing if not ridiculously consistent in his ideals.

FDR insiders later admitted that FDR pretty much continued all of the Hoover policies

There were lots of things FDR didn't know how to do. But one thing he did well was expand Hoover's few good ideas, and lead. He was a leader. I think my biggest personal disappointment in the Obama presidency is seeing a guy who went in a leader and pretty quickly turned into a politician. Still, one who I think had his brain on the right side of the fence - but he got mired in the machine.

 

[EveHarrington]

Bernie won RI.
CT is too close to call.
Hillary got the rest tonight.

:-/

 

[stillstanding2]

I'm looking at the math. The eight-year combination of the Bush/Cheney's destruction required an eight-year stretch of Obama's attempts to fix the damage while being hamstrung by Congress. Another a GOP president elected now for four years would complete 20 years GOP abuses of the middle and lower classes. That is not to mention climate change denial, continued tax cuts for the rich, and all the other abuses of their power. I believe in both Bernie and Hillary as candidates who will be tough enough to at least hold their own, even if they are opposed by an outrageous Congress.

That's why I think voting for either of them is acceptable, and the key to their having more success than has been possible for Obama is a Dem majority in Congress. But even in state elections, we also need to oust GOP officials in any way possible. This state (Texas) has been disgraced by Republican nitwits (Bush, Perry, Abbott) for a whole generation.

 

[EveHarrington]

@stillstanding2

You live in Texas?

I'll give you a hug. :hug:


I agree. We cannot afford to backslide. A republican in the whitehouse along with republican controlled congress would cause MAJOR damage. It's not about getting a dem in the White House in 4 years. We need change NOW! Or well at least to hold our own.