Calling Troll On New Posters

[Sighs]

HUGE difference between asking IF someone has a CritA trauma and asking them WHAT that trauma was.

 

[BlueOrange]

I thought I remembered reading some kind of guidelines when I first joined? Or, maybe that's not the kind of "rules" you mean?

Perhaps I should say "Social conventions". I'd prefer to avoid re-opening cans of worms (and my history here), but there are modes of expression that I don't like, and which people in the caring professions avoid using - I see them a lot here. And there are modes of expression that I had been trained to use instead, which I've been told were perceived as patronizing and trolling.

There's an emphasis here on being very direct that I have found confrontational more than once. I think it was therapeutic for me to come to terms with that. It definitely tends to push people off the fence, one way or another - either they lose their shit pretty quickly, or they demonstrate that they can handle things here pretty quickly. From a community maintenance point of view, I think it's good to weed out problems early. From a 'care for individuals' point of view, I'd love for there to be more investment in helping people come to terms with the rules here. However, there are finite resources, and I'll reiterate my support for the decisions that have been made, and the way things are run.

(Other things I would love to have are infinite funds, infinite time, and a flying car - so long as nobody else has a flying car; mid-air traffic jams would be awful.)

My presence is proof that bans are temporary in a number of cases - I think that @shimmerz and I have a lot in common when it comes to this stuff. (I didn't see the recent excitement, but the description of it suggests that quick and permanent banning would be the right thing to do.)

 

[DarkSideOfTheSoul]

@Simply Simon...yeah, I guess between my f*cked perspective atm, reading things I thought I saw, and my mood....it just came down to feeling as if I had to watch everything I say as a noob. I certainly don't intend to disregard 'how' I express myself since I'm usually polite and type intelligibly.
Don't mind me...I'm just reading into things that aren't there. In a weird hyper-vigilant/overly-sensitive space right now. Sorry. And it is frightening to be new. When I typed my introduction, I had no interaction with anyone here yet. As such, I didn't 'see' or feel the personalities behind other's writings...kind of a detachment in a sense.
And I'm coming out of the starting gate, already vulnerable, already hurting and seeking validity with like-minded others, and having no clue as to how I'll be perceived, and or accepted.

Btw...I've been diagnosed w/ complex-PTSD for over 10 yrs. now. Had DID (prefer the old term MPD) until my late 20's, but was fortunate to have had one hell of a trauma psych that put me back together at the time. So I'm not concerned with not feeling I don't have the 'right stuff' to be on this forum.
My brain had a hard time computing all those quotes Simply Simon. My apologies, but it was an overload for me & how my mind's processing...or lack thereof. Ended up crying even....that's how screwed up this gets for me. But it's on me.
Stenni's post did hit me though...

Quote: 'First, the whole Criterion A thing. In general, members here are keen to ensure that a new poster claiming PTSD actually has the condition, and that has to be right, because otherwise we would be flooded with endless vaguely unhappy people.'....Unquote.

I get that. This site would be most confusing if we were unsure when communicating to others if they were referring to PTSD or not.

I can understand why members would be keen, yet as Stenni also stated, Quote: 'I wonder if sometimes, though, people just can't manage to tell us what it's really about.' Unquote.

Therein lies the crux for me as a newbie. There are times I could manage to open up about it, and yet, there's times when I can't even face my past without feeling I bought a first-class ticket on the Crazy Train.
Then there's the dilemma about trusting folks who are established members, and as much as I want to trust & open up; that takes time. As a noob, I don't have that established time on this site yet. So, to read that under the heading of 'Calling Troll On New Posters', it caught me off guard. I figure it would be a given; considering the symptoms of what we're dealing with here; that perhaps it's not just about managing to tell...it's about establishing trust over time, in which to tell.

I also understand that very recently, there's been threads; one in particular; whereby a newbie went off the rails and was quite disrespectful. I'm sure it must be a difficult and fine line for mods in order to keep this a safe place for everyone, without stifling folk's expression. I don't envy the moderators job.


Sighs....I couldn't tell you the difference between Criterion A and trauma, except to say that one person could break a nail and it be devastating to them...yet, I'd trade places with their 'devastation' any day.
Apologies....don't mean to derail the thread. Thanks.
Think I'll go learn how to utilize the quote function now....

 

[BlueOrange]

@DarkSideOfTheSoul , given that you have explicitly sought advice on how to present yourself here, I reckon you'll be fine. (I am not a moderator, and moderators are not bound by my statements.) You seem sincerely interested in making a positive contribution, and I don't see you picking fights with people (which is part of what got me into trouble, and eventually led to a temporary ban).

Think I'll go learn how to utilize the quote function now....

If you're using a fully-fledged PC, then highlight the text you'd like to quote. A 'QUOTE' button will appear. It's so easy to use, that I kept thinking there was a trick to it, and it took me weeks to actually use it.

If you're using a mobile device, then it can actually be quite hard to use the quote function.

 

[Sighs]

@DarkSideOfTheSoul - I hope you find the forum as helpful as I have.

The repeated point that I and others make about Crit A is this - by definition to have PTSD you must have a Crit A trauma. So a broken nail, as devastating as that might be for someone is - again by definition - not a Crit A trauma and therefore the person cannot - by definition - have PTSD. We labour the point for a couple of reasons. Firstly, and most importantly, because if you do NOT have PTSD then there is no point treating PTSD - and in fact it might be harmful to do so. Secondly because claiming to have developed PTSD from a broken nail (or a relationship breakdown or being humiliated by a teacher or other upsetting but not Crit A events) is disrespectful to those who have suffered from a Crit A trauma. Something like Madonna complaining that having her songs leaked online was "like artistic rape". How rude to survivors of actual real life rape!

It can get complicated if, for example, the broken nail appears to lead to PTSD symptoms, but usually on examination it comes out that the broken nail is simply a trigger for symptoms caused by past Crit A trauma.

I've never seen anyone here ask someone to 'prove' they have a Crit A trauma or ask for details of the trauma. My feeling is that it comes from a place of caring enough to educate people and getting them to think about it themselves so that they understand their own issues better..

 

[DarkSideOfTheSoul]

Thanks @BlueOrange ...I went to the Help Desk, since no Quote Me button appeared when I highlighted. Hopefully I'll get it sorted. Using PC, so no device issues for me. Thanks again.

 

[BlueOrange]

It can get complicated if, for example, the broken nail appears to lead to PTSD symptoms, but usually on examination it comes out that the broken nail is simply a trigger for symptoms caused by past Crit A trauma.

For me, that's the thing that concerns me about the 'definition debates' that I see happening from time to time. My PTSD diagnosis comes from a professional who is the first person to ever really help me, and therefore I trust it. But the trauma is mostly early-life stuff, and the threat was to my identity more than it was to my physical existence. I have suffered from much more confusion than violence. Recently, my T has started talking to me about DID, which does seem to be a more accurate diagnosis. Articulating the idea "I meet criterion A because I was a child, and I perceived a threat to my survival, even though looking at the events as an adult, I can see that I was safe" is a scary thing for me to do now, and I'm not that new.

I think that this place is a very good place for helping sufferers and supporters who are dealing with trauma-induced dissociative disorders. I have never experienced extreme physical violence (and no sexual violence at all), and there are definitely things that I can't relate to meaningfully when it comes to people's histories. I do have a pretty good idea of what PTSD symptoms are like, and I do have experience of being treated for PTSD and getting a positive outcome from it - that's where I try to focus my contributions. I also think that 'myptsd.com' will always be able to draw a better audience than 'mytraumainduceddissociativedisorder.com', and the current evidence indicates (to me, at least) that attempting to separate out the DID and DD-NOS people from the PTSD people isn't likely to be very helpful.

 

[Recovery4Me]

With full respect on the contributions of members and staff, I wish to offer two quotes that beckoned my attention the most:

It is important as members, especially as members who have been here for a long time to review how you contribute and perhaps just do a little bit each week to model best practice and to welcome new members, perhaps just wish a few members a Happy Birthday.

what I'm hearing here, and correct me if I'm wrong... Is that you're looking for some kind of consensus on what people should say, & how they say it?

Firstly, Ms Spock offers a fair statement of how to treat new members. I find as I commit time to this task or supporting some other member who does greet the new members, I remain softer in my approaches (clearly not always).:clown:

Secondly, Friday brings up a solid point of tolerance on both sides. It is a PTSD forum and my learning the ropes took/still takes a few knocks on the noggin'. However, it is certainly the easiest part of my traumatic experiences to understand that I did not communicate as I intended or misunderstood someone else in a two dimensional forum. After all, in all seriousness...some of us need acceptance on some level...that is why more than a few of us are here. So if we take the time to share our views...everyone can win.

To be a troll or not to be... just report or love the trolls (?) but at least greet them.:clown:;)

 

[DarkSideOfTheSoul]

@Sighs ...I hope I find this site helpful as well. Thank you.
I completely understand what you're saying. I too, am offended by comments such as Madonna's one was.
It's hard enough to live like this, day in and day out.
I suppose after a time, when folks here get a sense of who I am from my posts, then there'll be no question of whether or not I suffer CritA trauma.
When I see long standing members interact in threads, conversations re: the details of their trauma becomes more commonplace. They're comfortable with each other.
I'm viewing this through the eyes of a newbie though. Perhaps some newbies get reactionary, in negative ways = trolling, since they're coming at all this info, and the seemingly ease with which it's being discussed, and may have a difficult time confronting that.
I'm not saying that's right..I'm just trying to see both sides of the coin. There are many sufferers who have yet to even admit they have this diagnosis even after being told by a professional. It's a hard thing to come to terms with, especially knowing there's no cure. Just a long, hard journey of managing symptoms and processing.
Then they see this forum with people openly discussing their traumas, and I have compassion for how some might lash out if they're not able to open up. I definitely don't condone that behaviour however. Don't get me wrong.
Even for myself, having dealt with complex PTSD for a decade, let alone MPD; coming to this site, I was a bit taken aback with how 'seemingly' comfortable many folks here are able to freely open up. I wish I had answers for aiding newbies into this process without becoming trolls.
Then of course, there's the issue of anger. I myself deal with that. I get impatient quickly, or push my friends away in ways that aren't healthy; only to regret it later. I'm grateful there's a 'time-out' policy here....I just may need it. Although, just a spoiler-alert...I have issues with rejection, okay? lol
I take things to heart too quickly. It's as if my good sense has booked it off for the day. And I find that a tad intimidating frankly. I'm scared I'll have one of those off days, or be triggered by something someone says here...then what? lol Not that it's my intention. I'd rather leave the site for a bit, til I'm in a better head space. Yet, it's that hyper vigilance, a hair-trigger response and getting spooked quickly, that I can understand how some wind up getting their asses booted outta here. But that's part of PTSD too. A fine line indeed.
Perhaps, a 'Rant Room' is in order? A thread that trolls can get kicked into when they start going south. No one else has to read it or respond....just wait til they calm down. Dunno. thinking aloud here.

 

[BlueOrange]

What I'm hearing here, and correct me if I'm wrong... Is that you're looking for some kind of consensus on what people should say, & how they say it?

@FridayJones , I like the way you articulated your concerns about what you were hearing. I support those concerns.

What I heard in the original post (and have tried to agree with) is a slightly different thing. I heard: "Sometimes, people turn up here asking for help, and we label them as trolls. In some cases, I think those people really do need help. If we treated them differently, could we help them to be productive members of this community?"

I think there are cases where the answer to that question is 'yes'. If we (collectively all of us) were better helpers, we could help more people. We could also help more people to help us.

I've also tried to say "Although it would be great if we were better helpers, we (much more credit is deserved by people who are not me, and have contributed over longer periods and dealt with more stuff) are good helpers, and if we try to help too many people, the whole thing may collapse."

I find it really difficult when people don't help, or when their help is ineffective - having been traumatized by chronic neglect, my instinctive reaction when someone seems to need help and someone else doesn't help them is to get angry with the person who could have helped. I've done a lot of work in this forum coming to terms with imperfect would-be helpers and limited helpers.

The diversity that you've pointed out is therefore a very valuable thing - it has been therapeutic for me, and I'm sure I'm not alone in that.

I think that it is theoretically possible to say "Yes, we should treat some suspect trolls differently, and we're going to design a way of doing that which doesn't limit the diversity that we value." The first idea that comes to mind would be to 'quarantine' trolls somehow, instead of banning them. Had I the time and energy, I could probably come up with a good system, and if @anthony had the time and energy, then he might even implement that system. The way I see things, the current system is doing pretty well. If people want to try to help the suspect trolls, there's nothing stopping them from trying.

 

[Recovery4Me]

I think that it is theoretically possible to say "Yes, we should treat some suspect trolls differently, and we're going to design a way of doing that which doesn't limit the diversity that we value.

With all respect, I do believe there is a viable system in place, that no asked us to fix. :hug:

 

[BlueOrange]

I do believe there is a viable system in place. :hug:

I'm glad we agree on that point.