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Clarification On Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder?

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Nicolette, that description of your sister's behavior so sums me up. I use the term brainwashing quite a bit to describe what happens whenever I try to remove myself from an abusive situation, and I so can relate to the weird obligation. I have a weird obligation to anyone that was ever what I perceived as nice to me. Even if that being nice was setting me up for further abuse. Even when I recognize that I am being abused again I feel an absurd obligation to help that person with their problems. It takes so much effort to "rescue" myself from bad situations. After I do get out of a bad situation it makes me feel so much worse for a while. I feel bad for the person that abused me, because I hurt them in some way by rescuing myself.
 
It seems very clear then that even though my abuse and traumas were long term my therapist's suspicion of C would be incorrect, and so much the better then! I'll get around to writing the trauma story. It's just long and a lot to get through, that's all. I had a really safe childhood with stable parents and family. I fell into a terribly abusive marraige out of ignorance, gullibility and stupidity, not as a result of a damaged childhood psyche. It was allll my fault from adult choices, not someone operating with the dependence of a traumatized child.

Information is always one of the most valuable tools, and thanks so much for taking the time to keep posting!

Anni
 
Anni,

From what I have observed it is not anyone's fault that they are abused. Sure we make wrong choices in life and get beyond our coping abilities, but just because one had a safe childhood does not mean that they cannot fall prey to abusive people. Some abusive people are very skilled at luring others in and distorting things. When one has never had to deal with a predator before one has no real defenses against them. So, don't be too hard on yourself. It is not all your fault. All anyone can really do is live and learn. People make mistakes. It is what you learn from them that counts.

Tiger
 
Anni, from what you are stating, yes... I do not believe you fit the diagnostic criteria for CPTSD. An abusive relationship, regardless how long term, is not what causes CPTSD if your childhood itself fell within the normal realms of growth. Your psyche develops as a child, not as an adult. You know and can identify when your life was good, when your life was normal. Abuse causes all sorts of issues, self esteem for women is typically a large part. An abusive partner can wear a womans self esteem to zero, but that does not fit CPTSD. You can be in an abusive relationship for a decade, two, and you still have PTSD. If you can think back to when you were not in the relationship and how your life was, you have a defined target to aim for against social normality, then it is PTSD. End of the day, you know you're within an abusive relationship, you don't just think its normal... you just can't get out of it for many other reasons and factors, usually delving into the self esteem issue. Abusive people intentionally break a persons self esteem down, because it is easier to make a person with low self esteem do as you say, to get them to follow you and remain within the relationship even though you know it is abusive and a shit life. You know what a healthy relationship is, ie. your parents relationship, friends or others (if allowed to have friends within an abusive relationship).

Tiger, you are correct in saying that CPTSD is what is normal for the sufferer, however; mental health scales are not determined against what the sufferer perceives, they are determined against what is defined to be and recognised as socially normal / society defined normal based on social cues. I didn't state PTSD & CPTSD are on the same scale, I said a sliding scale. If you realistically looked at both PTSD and CPTSD, then whilst PTSD may sit on a 1 > 10 scale of symptoms and social norms, CPTSD would be represented by society normality starting where PTSD left off. The symptoms are usually identical actually between them, though CPTSD tends to exacerbate a few over PTSD and then throw in a couple extra for good measure.

If you ask me personally, a person who truly has CPTSD and isn't misdiagnosed has about a 10% chance of any great improvement. That person would have to truly trust someone, listen to them and do as that person says in order to relearn new behaviours. An extremely hard thing for the brain to just allow once it has endured the level of trauma and mistrust it has to get CPTSD in the first place, and then comprehend why they are the way they are when the physicians tells them what CPTSD is.
 
From what I know about myself. I have no recollection of my childhood under the age of 5 with the exception of one bad memory. One good memory. I have no sense of myself before the age of 10. All of my traumatic events occured between age 10 and 12, there were too many in a short period of time. I became a sleeper and runner. A runner meaning a foster kid who runs and lives on the street. A sleeper is a nick for kids who serve time in juvenile hall. I never broke the law, just kept running from foster care from age 14 to 17. At age 17 or 18? I discharged myself from care.
I had alot of therapy from 1989 to 1999? I think. My therapy consisted of too many types and places to list at this time.
I was told I was on the cusp of splitting as a kid however, I did not split,,but SPLIT off from my stuff. Who knows , who cares, I am just wanting TO BE PRESENT and DEAL with the now. I will not be posting for awhile as I wil not have puter access. Thanks all for your replies I contiue to read alot on here.
Happy new year and god bless.
 
Ouch! Eleven plus sounds so much like me, unfortunately. I have no core personality that isn't the result of trauma, but I am not destructive (except toward myself). Socializing might as well be the behavior of a secret society to which I am not initiated. I do have some positive traits such as my sensitivity to the natural world. So what if it might have developed as an escape? I worked with mentally challenged people for many years because I wanted to help people who seemed to not have gotten a fair shake, as I didn't.

I try to remember that just as there was never a 'normal' client X, there was never a 'normal' me. The abuse started so early and continued so long, I never had a chance to develop a core personality. This is who I am, and I should try to make the best of it.

Incidentally, in the Herman book, she never talks specifically about recovery for someone like me. Is substantive improvement possible for someone like me?

maria
 
From what I understand Maria management will be your improvement but you will struggle more with anything substantial compared to someone with PTSD due to the loss of core self. Sorry.
 
anni

Abuse is always, always, always the fault of the the abuser. That's something I had to come to terms with in order to get out of a 16 year abusive marriage.

maria
 
From what I understand Maria management will be your improvement but you will struggle more with anything substantial compared to someone with PTSD due to the loss of core self. Sorry.

Well, at least I know my shrink isn't deluded because that's what he's been implying. At least that's what I get when I read between the lines or grunts as the case may be.

Thanks for replying.

maria
 
. An abusive relationship, regardless how long term, is not what causes CPTSD if your childhood itself fell within the normal realms of growth.
Sorry to disagree with you here, Anthony, but there is a plethora of information from reputable places - the National Center for PTSD (US Dept of Veteran Affairs), Matthew Tull, PhD (who does research on anxiety disorders particularly PTSD and is an assistant professor and director of anxiety disorders research in the Department of Psychiatry and Human Behavior at the University of Mississippi Medical Center in Jackson), and 'PTSD for Dummies' (a book that is recommended here on this site) - and even some not so reputable places (Wikipaedia) that state that C-PTSD arises from prolonged trauma, but it is not exclusive to people who were abused as children. I would also disagree that one requires an abusive childhood to end up in a place where you have no sense of self or trust as an adult.

I have been diagnosed with C-PTSD from events that occurred in my late teens and adult-hood. I have been presented with this diagnosis from two psychiatrists. One of these has worked with long-term effects from sexual assault for 20 years, and war veterans for ten years. The other is connected to the PTSD program at St John of God Hospital.

From Wiki: Adults with C-PTSD have sometimes experienced prolonged interpersonal traumatization as children as well as prolonged trauma as adults (my emphasis - it suggests that not all adults with C-PTSD got it from childhood trauma)

definition from Dr Tull: chronic, repeated, or long-lasting traumatic events, such as childhood sexual and/or physical abuse, domestic violence, or captivity (such as being in a prisoner of war camp).

Definition from 'PTSD for Dummies': C-PTSD can occur when people suffer repeated traumas, particularly when those traumas occur at the hands of another person. It's especially likely to occur if these traumas occur in childhood and involve vicious acts by others (such as torture) or abuse by a close friend or family member.

Sources of trauma that can lead to C-PTSD from the VA website:
Concentration camps
Prisoner of War camps
Prostitution brothels
Long-term domestic violence
Long-term, severe physical abuse
Child sexual abuse
Organized child exploitation rings

Sources of trauma that can lead to C-PTSD from Dr Tull:
The traumatic events connected to Complex PTSD are long-lasting and generally involve some form of physical or emotional captivity, such as childhood sexual and/or physical abuse or domestic violence. In these types of events, a victim is under the control of another person and does not have the ability to easily escape.


Sources of trauma that can lead to C-PTSD from Wiki:
sexual abuse (especially child sexual abuse), physical abuse, emotional abuse, domestic violence, torture and violations of personal boundaries such as serial intimate betrayals that are discovered and denied—known as gaslighting. In situations of protracted home care of a violent, mentally ill relative or disaster workers and carers for victims of a long running natural disaster like a Tsunami, without a viable escape route, each may later develop C-PTSD as a result of prolonged exposure to traumatic stress.

Sources of trauma that can lead to C-PTSD from 'PTSD for Dummies':
Childhood sexual or physical abuse or extreme neglect
Urban violence
Chronic abuse at the hands of a spouse or partner
War-related traumas including torture
 
Jagged... you just said exactly what was stated... late teens. Late teens is not an adult, nor has the brain matured to adulthood late teens. Abuse at this stage is still childhood, not adulthood. I believe you are trying to justify your diagnosis to me, which really isn't required.

I didn't state it can't happen, but instead I stated it is extremely rare for the diagnosis to be given to someone who has no such trauma within their childhood. You fit the normal scale then if endured prolonged abuse during teen years, even as it shifts into adulthood, it started in childhood, as your brain is still medically childhood and forming. Nearly every reference you give above only further states what I am saying... because near every description clearly outlines the majority requires childhood abuse. There are very very few instances within adulthood that CPTSD would be diagnosed because the event was so traumatic that it actually changed their complete state of belief. It is rare, as already stated.

If you go read about prisoners of war mental state upon return, many got diagnosed with PTSD and still today not CPTSD, because they near all still remember pre-trauma, they know what is normal behaviour, beliefs, etc... even though they had been tortured and prisoners for years. It is still very rare without the childhood brain, because the medical facts clearly state how residual the brain is and just how much it actually takes for it to break. It can be done, but again, absolutely rare.

When you review psychiatric journals about CPTSD, you will find that over 95 + percent of all diagnoses involve childhood trauma. Women who work in the sexual industry are 98% found to have endured sexual childhood trauma in the first instance to work in a such an industry in the first place. It is again a minority of women who work such jobs without either firstly having endured childhood trauma or have an underlying sexual disorder. It is very rare outside of this and the minority that do it just because they like it. The majority of childhood trauma comes from a family member or close friend of the family. Again, a minority of prolonged childhood sexual abuse is performed by someone outside of this circle.
 
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