Complexities Talking Online

[Deleted member 33023]

From a staff view, most newbies who display trolling behaviour, typically get warned first, especially if th...

I'm still confused about trolling. I'm reading threads and the more I read the more confused I am. I'm now more confused than ever. I don't feel telling others that they are getting banned on chat helps either. It makes it really awful. For everyone involved. I feel so terrible I want to apologize for all of it even if I wasn't wrong. Can't we just Report without making a scene?

What about people who come here and may have ptsd (how the heck can we know?) but have other more serious symptoms? Are we qualified or capable of helping them? Are we harming them or them us? I really naively thought this was just mainly ptsd sufferers but now I realize there are many people who have personality disorders that do say random things to get attention or will become hostile on the boards. I don't like it at all. They are not getting proper help and it makes me sad and scared.

I am no expert but "seeing things" that are not there...way too much. Scaring me into thinking that they may kill someone or hurt someone because they think they are defending themselves against someone who isn't there? Seriously scary. How about someone who comes into chat with the same freaking story every night asking for help but refusing it when their lives are in danger. Why not use create a thread and ask for advice? I'm reporting it. In fact, I think I'll begin to report people who are abusive too.

There is no reason to be rude, disrespectful and attacking anyone. Once the person realizes what they've done all they have to do is apologize. How hard can that be? I don't get it. Sadly, I may have outgrown the chat room but I really love meeting the people there especially since I am so socially awkward in real life.

 

[Friday]

Big questions... I'm only going to hit this piece right now;

Can't we just Report without making a scene?

That's one way of being kind. :)

Another way is to warn the person in advance. So they can either correct their behavior, or correct the other person's misunderstanding (or attempt to).

Either way can go well, or go badly. Really depends on the people involved, you know?

So, since there's no way to effect the outcome... may as well choose whichever way we each feel right about, oui? Confront, warn, report, ignore-function, ignore.

Spoiler: Longer

I can think of 3 instances, just yesterday, where 1 person was warned, and it was a misunderstanding and apologies were issued and all was well... Where 1 person was warned and it was a misunderstanding and it went badly... And where 1 person was warned & they threw a huge fit over it. All 3 instances involved different people. 6 people, 3 instances, same "thing" (someone had a problem with what someone else wrote), 3 different results.

Meanwhile there are countless instances where someone isn't warned and throws a huge fit over people not being willing to talk to them directly if they have a problem.

So, for all of me, I don't think that there's a right/wrong answer? No matter which way one chooses, it could go badly, so may as well pick the way that you feel best about in your own heart, oui? Since we're all just regular members it's not our job to warn people. We can ignore them, place them "on" ignore, warn, confront, or report... As we deem best. And they can, too. Like real life (with training wheels) the outcome is going to change depending on the people involved.

***

Personally, I don't tend to warn people. I tend to confront them. That way works for me, because I nearly always regret what I don't say far more than what I do say. ((If I have a problem with someone, I either say so, or wash my hands of them and go do something else rather than waste my energy on them.)) For others, confrontation is a huge deal, or they regret what they do say more often than what they don't say, or Fill in many other reasons here why they would choose to warn, report, ignore, or walk away.

 

[Deleted member 33023]

Excellent suggestion. I too like to ask what is wrong. I'd like it pointed out to me what I said may have been mean. Oftentimes It was typed incorrectly and can be misinterpreted, as it is easily done in chat. However, people responding with hostility when in the chat room have no business there. If you are triggered get out. Don't keep hanging on making a big scene. If they can't handle it...don't go. It is a community forum with lots of different opinions. Use it with respect. I always have regretting not standing up for people. I have regretting not saying so much now I will say it openly, honestly and sincerely. I will be genuine and respectful to feelings but I will not be abused...not anymore...not by anyone...neither should anyone else.

 

[joeylittle]

However, people responding with hostility when in the chat room have no business there. If you are triggered get out. Don't keep hanging on making a big scene.

This is a good way to think about it. Be aware, though, that making a scene comes in all different forms. It's important that everyone in chat actually go slow enough to 'listen' (read) what's going on. I see many problems just because a user will keep typing and hit return, get multiple responses into the box, causing the actual inciting incident to disappear, and not allowing for misunderstanding to get straightened out.

@FridayJones answered it really well. Nearly all the problems in chat come down to members making assumptions about intention, meaning, or tone - three things that are easily misunderstood in a quick text environment. A troll will be specifically trying to exploit those misunderstandings in order to incite any kind of pile-on. And of course, with mental health, some people will not be aware that they are exploiting in order to seek attention.

There's no such thing as a utopian chat room, just one with a minimum of problems that are handled efficiently. That's what we strive for.

 

[Deleted member 12723]

Thank you @joeylittle for explaining so well and defining the problem. i think that having so many newcomers is the situation. The forum is so new at first and we all have to go through the process of finding our own way around here.

I wish you luck with this one.

 

[Queen Boudica]

I do wish we would stop the talk about people with personality disorders on here who do random things to get attention and say hostile things on boards. If we are talking BPD, there are people on here with BPD who do not behave like that and I think putting down people with BPD when there is so much stigma and even with PTSD there is that sort of attitude that people with PTSD are unstable and violent. So would be nice not to have that sort of put down of others with mental health conditions.

 

[ms spock]

Mostly if I report I just do it quietly.

Occasionally I remind people that chat is a privilege and that if they want to keep that privilege they need to respect the chat room culture and the people in it.

Occasionally I will suggest that it might be best to take something to Private Message.

Then there have been long times I stopped going into chat especially if a particular person is monopolising the chat room in an intoxicated/drugged and/or partner abusing monologues or repeatedly discussing an issue that some hours have gone into discussing that particular situation by a wide range of members.

I found out by accident once that one member, who didn't like me, had a few other members on Skype and they were commenting on member's responses in chat - that was when I learnt to say Hello to each and every person (I don't always notice a new person arriving if I am in a conversation or disco dancing.) because apparently there were comments of me not saying Hello to a particular member, after I had say Hello more than a dozen times and they had never responded. I think getting new members on Skype and doing such this is pretty poor but I believe that no longer happens now. That person is banned now so it is a non issue.

Some people read the rules and they ride just short of crossing community boundaries/guidelines - which is why I am often surprised when people get upset when a member gets banned - often I have stopped reading their posts long before the banning because you can see it heading in that direction. Some people are completely unconscious though.

Some people are totally emotionally dysregulated and there is nothing much in it except them feeling like they are trying to stand up for themselves. They never had an emotion validated in their life, so it becomes life or death for them.

I think the best way to go is to presume that people mean the best that they can - and keep an open mind - ask for clarification - give the benefit of the doubt. Even in real life that is the way to go - even in the same room my partner can completely not get what each other is saying.

I can go in to chat and say Hello and not a single person responds - they are not being rude - they are just in a important for them conversation - so it can be a bit disappointing but I try not to take it personally.

Sometimes I go in and I get a few Hellos so that is nice - but it varies from time to time.

Not all people can follow a chat room well - some people only manage with one conversation and some people are well versed in chat culture and can follow multiple conversations. I fluctuate to how I am managing.

I provide comedic relief with disco dancing and hope that adds a bit of fun.

I try to be as inclusive as possible because new members will learn chat culture by the ways in which we interact with them. I suggest that if people get a private message from a moderator to take that as a kind gesture of guidance - you can frame things in a nice way to help people settle in on the forum.

Also I will say please don't do XXX as it makes much more work for the moderators, and they donate their time for free, and if they get worn out then we could lose such a precious resource as myptsd - that we are so lucky to have this place/space - and mostly New Members will settle down after such a conversation. I do it nicely - and as you know someone caring for a new person. People are often grateful and thank me for the heads up. You can say things to people if you can kind of come at it gently - we all have our own styles.

I also do Birthdays and Welcomes - and a lot of people have told me it makes it much easier if we paste the latest Welcomes and Birthdays in to chat. It seems to work okay.

Everyone is different - and we all have different communication styles.

 

[Sandstone]

The recent comments here don't seem to relate to the original thread. As the OP, could I ask you to take them to another thread?

 

[anthony]

As the OP, could I ask you to take them to another thread?

You can, did, and I agree that it is off-topic to your original thread. Done.

I don't feel telling others that they are getting banned on chat helps either. It makes it really awful. For everyone involved.

You're talking on behalf of others now by using "for everyone involved" which is part of the problem. Talk about you, not thinking on behalf of others. This is much of the issue in chat and threads, people assuming. Assumptions are the cause of most problems. Ask. I literally mean, ask, question mark, not statements, but ask a question specific to something you do not know, understand, or want an answer to... in the appropriate forum and location.

What about people who come here and may have PTSD (how the heck can we know?) but have other more serious symptoms? Are we qualified or capable of helping them?

This is a peer support community, there are no qualifications relevant here. You do not need be qualified to share thoughts, experience, education, and such, with others. What people use from here is their choice, knowing this is not paid therapy, but an online peer to peer community. There is diversity here that you cannot get in therapy, just like there may be experience and knowledge in therapy you may not get here.

Having other disorders than PTSD does not make someone a train wreck or such. PTSD, by itself, comes with some pretty nasty symptoms. When those alone are in full swing... just WOW... run for the hills is the simple answer. Having a personality disorder does not make someone a bad person, and unstable person even, it just makes them a little more emotionally complicated due to the extreme abuse they endured throughout childhood. Yes... some people become unmanageable with such disorders, and at which time they do get removed from this community because we can't support them and the disruption they cause outweighs any positive for the other members.

How about someone who comes into chat with the same freaking story every night asking for help but refusing it when their lives are in danger. Why not use create a thread and ask for advice? I'm reporting it. In fact, I think I'll begin to report people who are abusive too.

I really think you need to take a deep breathe. Read the legal policy you accepted. Did you read it?

It contains most of these points already, just in legal context. This is a mental health community. People are at different levels at any given time. Whilst I feel well now, tomorrow I may be symptomatic and on my arse struggling. Should I not seek support unless I meet what you deem acceptable to be here?

Where do lines get drawn as to who is acceptable to be here and who is not? We have those lines broadly written already... people who meet PTSD level trauma and those who support such people in their daily lives. People who's primary issue is a personality disorder, often do not last all that long here, because we have to remove them. The problem again though, is that symptoms ebb and flow. A person can be super well for a year, then their personality symptoms go to shit on them and hospitalise them for weeks or months. Should they not be allowed support during all that time they are quite ok, just because they have a personality disorder?

What you raise about reporting is really all you need to worry about. It is not a members right to tell another member what they can and cannot do, but instead know what you can and cannot do, and ensure you comply within those arcs. When you see someone outside of those arcs (site policies) you report them and leave it to staff to investigate.

Staff get to these things... it may not happen instantly like you expect, but it happens. Staff know policy, reference it as needed, to ensure whether a report reflects correctly of our policy or whether the member is bordering policy and may just need to be watched. A lot goes on... a lot is done daily... and all staff have lives too.

If you stick with report and ignore functions as a member, then you will have a happy and harmonious time here. If you step over our policy lines thinking you're doing the community a favour if you bully, intimidate or swear directly at another member, then it becomes you who gets actioned.

When in doubt... ask questions in the help desk forum. Staff are more than happy to answer questions, just don't turn those questions into statements and then assertions, as though your opinion is the right one. This forum has been around a long time and has a well established, balanced policy system in place to cater the majority. Sensitivity can be a problem here, as can aggression.

 

[joeylittle]

If you step over our policy lines thinking you're doing the community a favour if you bully, intimidate or swear directly at another member, then it becomes you who gets actioned.

This is so important. I've noticed that when someone has suffered from abuse, a common part of their journey through PTSD is re-discovering their voice, their assertiveness. That's one of the great benefits of a site like this - simply being here means you are practicing communication skills all the time.

The challenging part of re-discovering one's voice is that it takes some calibrating. People can get in the headspace of 'I'm never going to let anyone talk down to me ever again!!!', and then, everything (to them) can start to look like they are being talked down to, only because they are on alert for it.

And the even more difficult thing to manage is when it becomes, 'I won't let anyone talk down to anyone else'. I know the intention is good, but the outcome is usually bad - because no-one can speak for anyone else. You can speak for you, that's it. There are tons of amazing threads here where people really work through balancing assertiveness with confidence with acceptance, and they come out the other end having conquered their own calibration. It's really cool to see.

Doing it in threads is like skiing down the learner's slope. There's time to think (and even then, people can rush ahead of themselves). In chat, it's as fast as skiing down a real slope, and if something pushes a button for you and you swerve too hard, you can end up in a misunderstanding or a fight before you even notice it's happened. And at that point, it doesn't matter if you believe you are 100% right. It doesn't even matter if you ARE 100% right. It's not about anything except arguing, now, and that's when people either need to pull themselves back or staff will do it for them.

I've fallen into that trap lots of times, on the site and in life. Everyone does. We're all learning, and changing, and managing this really tough condition we have. PTSD is a bear. But it's not an excuse or a justification, it's only a fact.

Sensitivity can be a problem here, as can aggression.

Knowing where you are on this scale, and handling yourself accordingly, is such an important part of existing in a group.