Criticism - is it them or you?

[TLight]

I think I have a contention with the 'truth' that a person who responds with hurt or anger when another person criticizes them, no matter how brutally or personally, has no self esteem.

I think you can have self esteem......but I also think only very few saints can be spit on and not respond with anger or hurt inside.

There is always room for self improvement and consideration prior to any response to such an affront, but a brutal and disrespectful criticism causes most humans internal emotional pain. I think part of healing is to come out of denial of pain, accept pain, and feel pain. Also, healing means being assertive enough to not be reactive while still asserting boundaries and protecting your rights and dignity as a human being.

I guess I'm saying I don't agree with the saying, "The only person who can put you down is you." If that were true......I don't think I'd have ptsd. Of course, I was a child when it happened and that's when you are forming self esteem. But people have developed ptsd from abusive adult relationships....does that mean that 'the only person who can put you down is you' means it is because of their existing low self esteem? I think there needs to be a distinction in whether it is 'brutally' coming from a person who matters to you or has some form of power in your life or from someone whose existence doesn't mean a crap to you or does not have any power over your life.......(like a landlord, etc....can really wreak havoc.....shit, bosses can cause huge amounts of distress in a person..........is that only because they have low self esteem, or because it makes them FEEL afraid to be homeless, etc.)

 

[Candleflames]

What's your take on this subject?

This is a very interesting topic and for the most part I agree with you. When people get upset about criticism the emotions they feel in the moment come from their own internal critic. However that critic didn't spring forth from no where. It was created by some process that had to involve another, or many others. We don't exist alone and we aren't created from nothing. We exists as a part of a system and are created by both the healthy and unhealthy interplay of that system.

First off people have an inborn temperament. Like some are naturally better at something people also have a capacity to bounce back. That is either reinforced or or broken down throughout the life span. We each have to experience an optimal level of stress as well as a chance to both fail and succeed to develop a healthy self esteem. Not everyone gets that during the part of their life when the control is in another's hands. This is where I think that negative and self critical thinking style comes from. It doesn't just pop up out of nowhere. It is created at the hands of people around us that hold some power over us. It takes time too.

So my answer to "is it them or you?" is it's both. Sometimes is all them, sometimes is all you. Over time it is both.

Are you vulnerable to criticism, or not? If so, why, if not, why not?

Sometimes I am and sometimes I'm not. Sometimes the criticism stings for a while and some self reflection comes into play. I have to decide if what I am being told is really about me or about the person speaking. It doesn't feel good at first to hear a particular dress shows off quite how fat my ass has become or that something I've worked hard on looks/sounds/tastes like crap. But that's easy to deal with. The hard stuff to deal with is the back handed compliments, the competitive comments and the tone of voice someone uses that I really need to work with still.

 

[Nam]

@TLight I tend to agree with the last assessment. I think most of us do get our feelings hurt from harsh criticism. I don't think this is a bad thing. It's when we start repeating and believing those statements when we know they are not true that we start to wear down. That is when the damage is done. Before we know it, we start thinking it before it's warranted. Once we start thinking this way, it's very hard to retrain the brain to think differently. You know if you are in this camp if you can't answer this:

List 5 things that make you valuable.

There are 2 rules : They can't be based on your performance, and they can't be based on what others think of you.

Try it.
(credit to a poster on one of my own threads. carpediem2006)

I'm an artist and have to accept criticism. Most artists are pretty good at giving critique because we all know what it feels like to think our work is crap. We try to backup our critiques with suggestions. And that makes most artists feel like they are helping. I tend to agree.

Being self critical is also good. As long as it's truthful, and you are working on solutions instead of wallowing in self-pity. We are all going along in different phases of life. We need to strive to do better than yesterday, not comparing yourself to others.

That said, a person that comments that you're doing it wrong every few minutes on mundane, doesn't matter stuff, is wrong. That is a toxic person. It's time to get away. If you can't, then try to change them, but man, is that hard. I have told people, "You need to work on your delivery of your statement. It just makes you sound rude instead of helpful."

All of this is coming from someone who can be overly critical of herself. It comes with my upbringing that it always can be better. I am much easier on others than myself. It's working for now. It wasn't working when I had full blown PTSD symptoms. We must remember that when we are having symptoms to care of ourselves. Be gentler. We don't expect someone with an illness to perform just as well as if they are physically feeling great.

If someone is yelling at me, I cry. And it's not that I'm soft either. It's just an instant reaction. I refuse to get angry, well, my other option is to cry. That person can be yelling they love me, but if it's said in a mean tone, forget it. My father-in-law made me cry once with his tone. He wasn't even yelling at me! But the tears flowed. I didn't have PTSD then (or I didn't think so), so it wasn't that....

A long post to basically say, a criticism can be helpful if the intent is helpful and person saying it is saying it out of a place of love and respect. If the same critique came from someone who was trying to tear you down and a place of jealousy, well, he/she's a dick. Move on.

 

[user27357]

I think the source of the criticism plays a role, and of course my own take on the accuracy of the criticism.

A respected source, my wife for example, could make a valid criticism and it could hurt but probably not be as much of a problem for me as an invalid criticism. "you don't care about my car" would be very aggravating, I do take great care of her car. " You don't try to get along with my friends" would probably not get much of a response, it might get an effort to be more tolerant of them.

A hammerhead that wants to critique my driving style after tailgaiting me as I drive the speed limit through town isn't going to get much of a response but if he was to pull along side and say something like "you are far too concerned about traffic safety due to the traumatic experiences you can't seem to get past, if you were more mentally strong you could have driven a more socially accepted speed back there and I wouldn't have to offer up this opinion, you weak and inept moron". Highly improbable but it might leave a mark, even if the guy was an obvious hammerhead and he passed me just to go tailgate the next victim.

Valid criticism from even an unvalued source can get in, invalid criticism from a valued source can hurt. Some unknown stranger throwing around garbage criticism doesn't get a nod, and a deep cut from a trusted friend might be taken as an attempt to improve the relationship with them, probably would be eventually if not immediately.

 

[BlackbirdSinging]

I think there are two types of criticism and two types of responses or reactions. I think there is constructive criticism where if you're open to looking at issues in your own life you in a way appreciate being told. And there is just criticizing where it's more like fault finding for no other purpose. I think that has more to do with the person who is criticizing than the person who is being criticized.

I think most people who are looking to grow and change appreciate even if it's hard to hear on some level the constructive criticism. And then I think most people don't like being criticized for the sake of having a flaw pointed out without the intention of being helpful in pointing it out. Whether it's right or wrong.

I'm a perfectionist. I'm hard on myself. I can compliment myself and then use it against myself like "sure I'm intelligent but if I'm so smart why did I make that mistake?". When I want to take a long hard look at myself and I'm talking to someone I trust and they give me constructive criticism I'll think about it even if it's hard to hear and look for any truths I might find in it. But I can be sensitive to being criticized and having my issues or flaws pointed out just for the sake of it with no other intention. Or if the intention is to just be b*tchy and mean. It can feel like being picked on. And it feels more like it's about the other person having their opinion and then imposing it on me.

 

[Seasounds]

Criticism, I take it well if the person giving it is respectful, kind, and helpful. When the person giving me feedback is rude, demeaning, or abusive, it is more challenging for me, because I am working to stay in the present while the past is triggered.

My second therapist was a CBT practitioner. The catechism for was:

1. I create my thoughts, feelings, and actions. This means that when someone is mean to me, my brain and memory are creating my thoughts, that, in turn, create my feelings. I rebelled at first! But the beauty of this principle is: if I create my thought and feelings, then I can begin to choose/create my thoughts and feelings, rather than being and feeling insane, from what other people "splatter" my way.
2. To cultivate the sense of choice in my psyche and others, the T trained me to eliminate "have to, ought to, must, and should", and to use "I want, and I choose", instead.
3. To decrease personal judgements, and consciously eliminate, the thought that life and people are "good or bad", instead, for self-compassion, T trained me that life, and my process, is about "choices and consequences.
4. How are my emotions created? From how I, including my primitive brain, (which recognizes similarities of past dangerous situations in the present), process the present situation. Perceiving is part and parcel of processing.
5. What determines how I process and perceive experiences? I do: my past experiences AND my ever evolving, intentionally interactive (to re-direct triggered responses) mindbody responses, to help me respond to the present.
6. What was the goal of therapy? To have greater input to how I feel.

 

[anthony]

I guess I'm saying I don't agree with the saying, "The only person who can put you down is you." If that were true......I don't think I'd have ptsd.

You're confusing criticism with traumatic abuse. You need to separate and isolate each one, as they are different. Like it was mentioned above, there is a line.

 

[anthony]

I create my thoughts, feelings, and actions. This means that when someone is mean to me, my brain and memory are creating my thoughts, that, in turn, create my feelings. I rebelled at first! But the beauty of this principle is: if I create my thought and feelings, then I can begin to choose/create my thoughts and feelings, rather than being and feeling insane, from what other people "splatter" my way.

Exactly... like that one 1,000 times.

Study results are often quite interesting when compared, even across different forms of CBT underlying therapies. CBT itself, PTSD sufferers tend to stay stable as a majority for longer durations when they reimplement their CBT foundations, if forgotten... compared to say EMDR, PE and other forms of trauma only therapies. When combined, the results typically improve again, statistically, for duration of no longer meeting PTSD / maintain and controlling PTSD to a minimal level.

 

[Friday]

The Question -- Why is criticism upsetting to some, more than others?

I suspect it's a combo of lenses: how people see the world, and how they see themselves in the world. Hehehe, now if that isn't just the vaguest most useless answer ever. ;) Sharpening that up a little bit (or making it clear as mud) :

- Don't judge others by yourself = One thing I've noticed is that a lot of people who are the most outwardly sensitive to criticism are also the least likely to criticize anyone else unless they are pushed absolutely beyond self control / rage / & are on the attack. Unsurprisingly, there is a tendency to view anyone else criticizing them as coming from the same place of World War III. Judging others by themselves. The idea that other people could have no emotional attachment to their criticism? Simply doesn't register.

For example: People who actually mean "Pick up your socks" when they say it tend to be a bit baffled by people who infer "You horrible & disgusting person! How dare you continue to disrespect me, whom you obviously view as your slave by leaving those nasty things, that touched your repulsive body, laying in my path!" Nor the implication when the shoe is on the other foot, and 'pick up your socks' has become a deeply meaningful & emotive statement, instead of a straight up criticism or request. Say Wha? Um. Are we still talking about the socks?

- Scripts & Schemas = Person A does ______ means that Person B must do _______.
Whether that's criticize & _______ (defend, argue, apologize, placate, deny/lie, answer, etc.), or any other kind of automatic response. Whether a child or adult, if a person has been conditioned to automatic response? That's a helluva a hard habit to break. From experience.

- Status. Like a private mouthing off to a major... Some things simply aren't done. Status is always relative, but it's interesting to see where people place their own status in regards to other people around them. Again, in my experience & observation, it tends to be people who view themselves at either end of this spectrum who are hit the hardest by any criticism. Either Queen of Hearts -how dare anyone correct me???, or people who value everyone else above themselves / don't feel they have the right to disagree with anyone else's perception of them.

What's your take on this subject? Are you vulnerable to criticism, or not? If so, why, if not, why not?

I'm not super vulnerable to criticism, I like/enjoy it more often than not -at worst there's usually pretty good comedic value, & at best there's something to be learned-, but I also have absolutely lousy self esteem. Lol. Which is a quandary! However, maybe the 'why' is that I tend to go a bit Eleanor Roosevelt meets Brigham Young &/or Confucius concerning both criticism & passive aggression.

"No one can make you feel inferior, without your consent." -Eleanor Roosevelt

“He who takes offense when none was intended is a fool. He who takes offense when is intended is an even greater fool." -Attribution Debatable

 

[Rumors]

@Noah I said "Someone raising their voice really doesn't have anything to do with the message, but only the delivery. Next time someone yells at you and you feel like fleeing, turn it around and think how insecure they must be to deliver a message so poorly. It doesn't mean the content is wrong, it just means they lack good communication skills. Too bad for them! "

I do understand. Where in this statement did I limit raising your voice to only criticism? My message is that just because their delivery is awful, don't let that impede the message and realize they have poor communication skills. It isn't a reflection on you, but more so on them.

I completely understand how someone yelling can be intimidating. I hate it. I was yelled at as a kid and perceived it as my fault. I am learning that sometimes someone yelling has less to do with me and more to do with them so I no longer choose to flee a conversation because someone is yelling or raising their voice. Sometimes I choose to remove myself because the tactics become abusive, but the act of yelling doesn't send me into thinking I am 4 again. I can realistically look at the situation as an adult and realize that I am only in control of myself and their delivery sucks. ;). I hope this makes sense. However, I totally get where you are coming from because I have been there myself. I still go there on occasion and I have to be very mindful that I am older and in control and can choose to leave the conversation in an adult manner without feeling like I am fleeing. I hope that made sense.

 

[shell]

I am extremely sensitive to criticism, not just of me but even being in the vicinty of someone else being critized. It is not even the content of the discussion, but rather the tone, and the anger, it is my automatic reaction that I am about to be attacked or that something really bad will happen.

I feel extremely unsafe, and want to escape because I associate it with the physical attack that would follow as a child. I know it's not logical, and when I have calmed enough later I can see it is about them, rather than me, or accept it constructively, but my inital reaction is to flee.

 

[Fadeaway]

If the comments are wrong, then you should be questioning yourself as to why you're upset, because there should be nothing to be upset about if the comments are wrong.

I think the issue I have when criticism is wrong is that half of me knows it is wrong but there is also a part of that questions myself and my thinking on the subject.