Cure For PTSD - Does it Exist?

[anthony]

Hi Bradinn, I think some of your points are quite relevant, others are your opinion. At the end of the day I will say the same thing to you and I do Waif, show the proof that a cure exists and then I am more than willing to rollover and say, well... I was wrong. Scientifically proven at this point in time, no cure for PTSD exists, and that has nothing to do with biased studies, it has to do with the overwhelming joint opinion within the psychiatric field. I agree with you that studies are biased, and have always stated that myself for the same reasons. Studies are looking for an outcome before they begin, under conditions and controls which do not allow a wider base for interpretation or outcome, a more true result that is.

Mental health studies are not the same IMHO as say.... studies for the testing of a new medication. That needs controls, it needs knowns in order to study an accurate outcome. Mental health studies not quite the same IMHO.

I am wondering Anthony do you believe people can not be cured but can recover?

Waif, you pretty much hit it on the head. It is not because I believe people cannot be cured though, it is simply at this time factually proven that PTSD as a mental health illness has no cure, however; it does have known variables in which you can apply so that a person may recover the symptoms, though cannot recover the illness itself. A small stressor or trauma simply sets them off once again. This is why it is incurable at this point.

Bradinn suggests that I would be crushing people by stating the truth, well I do not see it that way. What other forums do that may be the consensus, however; again this is not other forums, this is my forum. My forum works on facts, and no factual evidence exists at this time that a known cure is available for PTSD. The facts are though, that medication is available to help with the symptoms, not cure, but eases the symptoms. Facts are, known technique, exposure therapy, therapies and relaxation of types when combined are producing results to help some, but not others. Whilst it helps some, but not others, its not a cure, its simply what it factually states.... known techniques to assist the recovery of PTSD symptoms, not PTSD illness, PTSD symptoms. That is what CBT is about, exposure therapy, EMDR and so forth. None of those methods ever state nor claim they cure PTSD, but instead they look at the aspects of healing trauma and teaching people how to manage themselves, their lifestyles... nothing about a cure though.

Some idiot physicians run off and adapt a known method, call it a different name, try and get themselves known or branded because that is what they see as important, they try and blindfold the world with hope and bullshit, instead of providing fact. If I told someone they could be cured, and after 20 years they still suffered the same shit, that would only make me look stupid. Why do you think the majority of therapists who even state its curable are all looking stupid? Because if they are dealing with someone who has PTSD, not PTS, but PTSD... then they cannot cure it, they can only help the person to heal their trauma, then help that person expose themselves to life once again. Even a person who endures EMDR, that only focuses on the trauma, not the exposure back into life. A combination of both brings results, however; people jump back into life and then fall over, all their trauma memories resurface and they go back 50 steps because they where told it was cured, when in fact the chemical imbalance hasn't gone anywhere, which is what PTSD is. PTSD is not the symptoms, it is the actual physiological change within the brain, hence why PTS exists.

If you present here a factual cure for PTSD, I will certainly change what I am saying, which is based currently on facts, not on fiction. Prove me wrong, more than happy to be proved wrong about such an important aspect of my own life.... please do I say, but bring facts to the table, not fiction, not your opinion, facts.

 

[anthony]

Your attempting to debate with me a cure exists, which doesn't.

Your attempting to say that you must bring "hope" to believe a cure exists, which has nothing to do with it.

Facts only please.... Fact: No cure for PTSD exists. Fact: PTS can be cured, and is often misdiagnosed for PTSD. Fact: I believe a cure will one day exist. Fact: Presently, the application of known techniques and methods produce a result that allow "some" to get back into life, allow "some" the ability to live daily under a controlled lifestyle to keep symptoms at bay, all "some" to simply have a little peace compared to uncontrolled state of constant anxiety.

Please bring facts to table if you want to debate whether a cure exists or not.

 

[Awakening]

I have to draw a parallel here.

I have an endocrine disorder called polycystic ovarian syndrome. It is incurable. It affects hormones, including insulin. It affects fertility, cholesterol, blood pressure etc. As a result I have suffered from high blood pressure, high cholesterol & diagnosed with insulin resistance.

You are diagnosed with blood tests, and an ultrasound that typically (but not always) presents with cysts of the ovaries.

However, the symptoms can be reduced to non-existant in some cases with diet & exercise & some with medication but not all.

My endocrinologist said whilst there is no cure, naturopaths tend to have a lot success with this disorder.

I have seen a naturopath on and off for two years. With diet recommendations, weight training, exercise & vitamin therapy - my last ultrasound showed no cysts (when previously on one they were extensive and the other medium). I have reduced my blood pressure & cholesterol. I have not checked my insulin levels recently, but I am tipping that too would be back in the normal ranges because of how I feel.

At the moment to quote the specialist, looking at me with my ultrasound & blood test results I appear not to have the endocrine disorder. If I walked in off the street afresh today I would not be diagnosed with polycystic ovarian syndrome. In other words I appear not to have it at all, and there are no signs of it (i.e. cysts are produced as 'scars' as result of ovulation failing).

However during this two year period when I have been 'bad', and binge drinking & eating junk & not exercising my blood tests results again show I have the endocrine disorder. I am not on any medication for it, I have 'cured' myself with changes to my lifestyle. Yet it is incurable!

I have not researched this extensively but it is widely accepted in the medical community that treatments such as naturopathy, diet, exercise, meditation (i.e. a combination of treatments) that symptoms of polycystic ovarian syndrome can be reduced to 'zero' yet they still have not declared a 'cure'. I'm assuming because it only works for a percentage of people and because like I say as soon as I stop the lifestyle changes I've made I again suffer the symptoms.

I believe PTSD is the same, and in effect agreeing about incurable/curable. What your debate about is more philosophical in how you present the 'not curable, but treatable' aspect of PTSD. And really that's just a matter of opinion. Some are super positive, optimistic, others not. Somewhere in the middle i.e. realistic, is what I think is ideal. A bit of balance.

For Jack may feel badly initially about being told that his PTSD is incurable. Then again, he may feel better about himself about why he has been unable to get out of the grips of his PTSD hell. And Jill may feel great initially, but then plunge into despair after a few months when she is no longer getting better.

But to each their own. Some people like different forums depending on their personality & philosophical outlook. Personally I couldn't stand an airy fairy feel good positive the world is wonderful forum but equally I couldn't stand a negative poor me victim one either. I think this one is mostly, most of the time, a good balance.

It's the same with treatments. I quite happily see a naturopath but other people think that is hocus pocus. I also like meditation. Others see it as new age.

A cure does not exist. It is treatable/manageable I believe with a lot of hard work using a combination of treatments mentioned throughout these posts. It is possible that one day there might be a cure.

 

[anthony]

Well said Awakening.... "realistic" is a good word. I like that word, along with "fact" and "commonsense" and "balanced approach" and such terms. I do not endorse at this time, "PTSD can be cured" when there are no "facts" to this statement. If one does come around, where the one treatment provides a majority cure of all issues, as defined what a cure takes from a medial viewpoint, I would endorse it immediately. PTSD however can be recovered if you apply a "balanced approach" to known techniques.

Bradinn and Waif, these are my points.... and facts.

 

[spiritofnow]

But what constitutes a scientific fact?
A scientific fact is something that can be historically identified and followed throughout time in order to determine whether it is a fact - what has not been refuted can be considered a scientific fact and nothing else!
Ever read the book ....entitled the 'Black Swan', by Nassim Nicholas Taleb? The long and short of this book is that; Until the 19th century it was believed a fact that all swans were white, that is until the discovery of mutant black swans in Australia. A fact is something that is misused as the criterion for a fact has many variables and misconceptions.

Lets take for example Karl Poppers theory - Karl Popper's 'Hypothetico Deductive' method sets out guidelines of this principle in determining whether something has sufficiently reached a scientific stage and can call itself scientific. So unless PTSD research has adhered to this process than stating whether something is a fact or more importantly as we are talking about science a ' scientific fact' would be misleading and a falsehood.

Lets not also forget FiLCHeRS -The six rules for evidential reasoning; FiLCHers is an acronym, ignoring the vowels helps in remembering the six rules of evidential reasoning as set out by James Lett:
Falsifiability - A claim must be able to be disproven.
Logic - Any argument in support of a claim must be both valid and sound. To be valid the arguments premise must be true. To be sound, the rules of logic must be correctly used to reach any conclusions based on such premis.
Comprehensiveness - all evidence that is available must of been exhaustivley referred to.
Honesty -The evidence must be evaluated without self-deception.
Replicability - The evidence for a claim ( scientific measure etc) must be able to be replicated. Literature does not serve as evidence alone.
Suffiency - Extraordinary claims must be supported by extraordinary evidence. The eveidence of the truth of a claim must be substantial in order to support this.

All of these should be considered before ever claiming that something is a scientific fact!

At the end of the day fact or not fact PTSD is debilitating, but should the emphasis of such forums be based on giving people hope instead of bantering over the semantics?

 

[spiritofnow]

In conclusion where are the scientific facts that PTSD is not curable and where are the scientific facts that it is? Without these all facts are merely based on conjecture.

Spiritofnow

 

[dljwhitewolf]

I love the thought of hope, I hope someday to have a puppy, this is a real possiblility, I wish there was a cure for ptsd, but there is not, I will not hold all my eggs in one basket telling myself I will be cured, because all I would be doing is setting myself up for an extremely high ledged fall.
I don't mind falling, as long as its a dive in a pool, other then that, I'll keep my nose in books, and realize, as yet, there is no cure for ptsd.

 

[Kathy]

At the end of the day fact or not fact PTSD is debilitating, but should the emphasis of such forums be based on giving people hope instead of bantering over the semantics?

In my opinion Spirit, this forum does offer a great deal of hope, to PTSD sufferers and their family members (of which I am one). Simply look at the PTSD Success Stories forum, there is much hope there. Members discover they are not alone, they share symptoms in common, they work on themselves (if they choose to) and improve their situations, and have the support of others here in the meantime. Stating that PTSD does not yet have a cure is not negative, it is realistic, as Awakening aptly put it.

Why are you so opposed to thinking that PTSD does not yet have a cure? No one here is saying that it won't have a cure in future; far from it. I believe what is being said though is to work with what you have now, in the present, today. Today there is no cure, however there is treatment, recovery and yes hope for those who are willing to do the work. A cure may come in future, but shouldn't we all be concerned with the here and now?

I personally work with what I have now. Would I like my daughter to be cured? Of course! However the fact is, she has been through all the treatments Waif has mentioned, CBT, exposure therapy, and so forth, and she is not cured. However, knowing there is no cure currently has not stopped her from having hope. In spite of having some brain injury and cancer, she has worked very dilligently upon herself for the last year and a half. She is doing incredibly well and is now at a management stage of her illness. She has a job and has even begun dating. However, if she is exposed to a stressor, such as attendance at a military ceremony, she would backslide badly. That is hardly cured - however - in spite of not having a cure, she is now having a very good life, much better than we ever expected for her. That is hopeful, and realistic at the same time.

 

[spiritofnow]

Maybe you could say that not seeing PTSD as incurable is part of my denial?! All I know is that when facts are being tossed around it should be done so with the knowledge that others like myslef who have just had the kick in the gut that they are suffering from PTSD maybe frightened to see that it is not curable reported as a fact! Perhaps that is something people should be eased into being revealed!

On my course I have been taught to think with a critical mind (not in a negative sense, people see the word critical and see it as a threat) and not make the mistakes that we do when accepting things - I guess you could be given both sides of the story then left to make your own mind up - otherwise it seems like there is an agenda behind supporting a theory and projecting that on to others - that of course is my insight/perception.

In no way do I believe that this forum is not helpful or theraputic - I guess I am just trying to approach this disorder with a balanced mind - but then PTSD does not even facilitate that process so whether something is balanced or not is based on percpetion and what people choose to believe.

I do realsie that right now i am considered an outsider to those who have belonged here for some time, it's the in-group, out-group dynamic - I am seen as the out-group and could pose a threat to your society on here. I am not a threat just passionate about being fair and presenting facts as and when they do become that!

For me believing that is not curable is not comprehendable right now! maybe it is more realistic that the symptoms become more managable? I moved/ran away to Canada the first time PTSD was put forward - so that is an insight into my struggle with acceptance!

What is curable? - to one person it maybe that the symptoms of it are managable? To another it may mean that you will never experience the symptoms of PTSD again?!

Life is about balance - that is all I am offering/suggesting/looking for.

I wish you and your family all the best and much much hope! :smile:

 

[spiritofnow]

Okay, let me see if I can unravel at least for myself some of what is being espoused here.......

I could not of said it better! Thank you Bradinn, thank you!
As Mark twain once said ' its not the size of the dog in the fight its tihe size of the fight in the dog' this applies to people and PTSD or 'Get your facts first then you can distort them as you please'......
Spiritofnow

 

[Kathy]

Maybe you could say that not seeing PTSD as incurable is part of my denial?!

I believe you may have answered your own question here. Perhaps you are having difficulty accepting your diagnosis? That is completely understandable, especially given you have just been diagnosed! To use my daughter again as an example, she was diagnosed in 2002 however did not begin working upon herself until 2006. Many do not accept the diagnosis immediately or do anything about it immediately either. You should give yourself credit for being here so soon.

To be frank, I do not see the in-group, out-group dynamic happening here at all. There are many new members at present and all are welcomed warmly. I do not consider you an outsider. Perhaps it is more you personally feel like an outsider because you question some of the views being discussed here.

All I know is that when facts are being tossed around it should be done so with the knowledge that others like myslef who have just had the kick in the gut that they are suffering from PTSD maybe frightened to see that it is not curable reported as a fact! Perhaps that is something people should be eased into being revealed!

Personally I believe it is best to know completely what you are dealing with, and the sooner the better. That may be painful to some, however it is important to have as much information as possible if you truly wish to heal.

What is curable? - to one person it maybe that the symptoms of it are managable?

Management is not a cure. As I mentioned previously, if my daughter exposed herself to certain situations, she would backslide. In fact, her former psychiatrist, a PTSD specialist, told her she would have to avoid certain situations (in her case involving weapons) for the rest of her life. So, she needs to avoid military ceremonies, rifles and so on. She will not be going hunting with my husband, for example. However that does not mean she cannot have a good life. A parallel is diabetes. Diabetes can be managed with diet and insulin, and the diabetic can have a very good life. However, the moment they stop their diet and medication regimen, they become ill, as diabetes is not yet curable.

Life is about balance - that is all I am offering/suggesting/looking for.

I also strive for balance. That is why I have hope for a cure, however I do so realistically, as I can only live for today and not 5 years nor 20 years in the future! For who knows when we will have a cure. It could be tomorrow, but it mightn't be for several years either.

Thank you for your wishes for my family.

 

[spiritofnow]

Although I have had an offical diagnoses yesterday I did as I may have mentoined have the diagnoses of PTSD from another doctor in another part of the U.K about 4years ago. As I never attended therapy etc etc I did not all together belive that PTSD was the case. However, over the last 2years I have made BIG changes to my life personally and one of those was the realisation that I did have to heal! I began CBT in August 2007!

I guess this debate could go around and around - and ultimately I will choose what I believe or what I am drawn too depending on how that fits in with my expectations, reality, mindset.

I do believe that I can undo whatever irrational fears etc that I have with the right therapy and hard, hard work - that is my choice and if that is considered denial than for this time only I am happy to live there :smile:

Thank you for your honesty and openness I really do appreciate it and receive it graciously.

Thank you

Spiritofnow