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Day Of The Dog

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I wonder about this dog-lady. Someone once suggested to me that I get an attack-type breed. Are ya nuts??? Last thing in the world I need is someone egging me on. I need a dog who counters my weaknesses. Not one who I get angry, and they join in looking for a target! Great! Let's bite someone!!! Nooooooo. A good friend's bias. She was pretty timid, and had the sweetest Dobie. Both gave her the courage to stand up for herself, and got her used to giving commands (that were instantly obeyed) instead of being a doormat. She said I reminded her of her dog. Yeah, well, she's got a human to rein her in. I guess I do need that, but it's aside from the point. I tend to match well to huskies & hybrids (although I have my son's lab at the moment <grin> Love that dog, I don't usually get on with Labs.). Breeders often match people personalities & dog personalities. I wonder if this dog-lady thought "Extreme Anxiety, Runner, Dauntless, Determined, Strong, Needs gentle handling" ... And made the leap to matching you with a greyhound? If so,.. I'd be a little nervous about her future picks. There are a lot of breeds that are super anxious, and very flight-oriented. Sounds like the opposite of what would give you strength & calm. Like matching me with an attack dog or terrier, some things are just a recipe for disaster.

I think you did fantastically well, in a bad situation. I tend to agree with your therapist: following a bad episode with a dog, what instantly "worked"? Another dog. A dog with the right personality and temperament. Your brain didn't lump all dogs together. That was a bad situation, this is a calming one. That's kind of awesome. Especially if you tend to blur triggers & stressors.

___________________________________

Just me talking about breeds...

((I wrote this first, the above paragraph was the last thing I wrote, but the only thing that was really important. The rest of this is just me musing/ thinking out loud.))

I'm really surprised anyone would try to turn a greyhound as a therapy dog. I suppose it could happen, but thousands of generations of being bred to "Flight!" & "Reach target at all costs!" (Used to run messages across battlefields, coursing, etc.. Long before racing. And racing has bred most of the smarts out of most of them, speed over all else) has made the entire breed pretty flighty & neurotic/ super anxious. They used to be wicked smart, some still are, but it's a coin toss. They can be loves, but when they get startled, they can be 5 miles across town before you can blink. And if there's oncoming traffic? Greyhounds who get loose, usually don't survive. Know a few race-rehabbers... And it's their constant fear: no matter how many years of training, that flight response kicks in? You've got a cloud of dust where the dog used to be. Drive across town in whatever direction they were headed, and pray they don't get hit or have a heart attack.

There are always individuals which defy breed parameters. However, it's generally a good idea to know what breed standards are.

- I'd think an attack dog breed (intensely loyal to one person, hypervigilent, intelligent, & disobeys instinct to obey commands; think dobermans) before I thought courser.
- And I'd think a herding breed before attack breed (almost any dog with "shepherd" in the name, and several without... Avoid any bred for range work unless you've got some serious time to exercise them, Australian Border Collies were bred to patrol the borders of huge ranches... They need miles of daily exercise; think 10 miles is a good start. Smart as whips, border collies, they also get super depressed/neurotic of they don't have work keeping them busy. Sheeple being their 2nd favorite thing to herd & keep safe.)
- or babysitting breed (mastiffs, namely, big suckers though... Known as babysitters because they're one of the few breeds you can give complex commands to: certain nomadic groups use them to mind the children while the parents are away) for their unflappable calm-calm-calm before I thought attack dogs.

....In fact, I think the only breeds lower on my standards list than racers/coursers would be temple guard dogs (chows for example) who tend to be pretty cranky & standoffish. Crankiness & wanting to be left alone being a huge attribute in their bred line of work, not so much for the being loved on & loving on.

Working (to include sporting&hound) dogs were generally bred for both intelligence and specific tasks. So they generally make good working dogs ;). A service dog being a working dog. But not always! Depends on what they were bred for, and the individual breeds are very different from each other.

Huskies, for example, trust their own judgement over their owners. Oh, they know the commands. But they decide whether or not they think the command is a good idea before obeying. Which isn't that often when they think you're being stupid. It's beautiful out. Coming inside is dumb. Not gonna happen. I've got a hole to dig. It might get cold tonight, and you're clearly not doing anything about shelter. Again. Yeah, yeah, yeah... You've for one house. I've got eleven holes. Who's prepared now??? And your territory is much too small. Let's annex the neighbors! 5 houses down. What??? What're these complaints?

I know 2 huskies who are phenom PTSD service dogs for their owners, because no matter how much they get pushed away? Sorry, human. You're being dumb. Again. Haven't we talked about this? Most of the time, for most people, a husky would be a lousy choice. Like really, really bad. These are both very outdoorsy exMilitary guys... The breed standard fits exactly what they need in general, and then the service training just cements everything together.

Retrievers, meanwhile, have become America's Lawn Ornaments because of their generally sweet dispositions & ease in training. But there is a big difference between a Labrador Retriever & an Irish Setter. Both are often used as service dogs... To two entirely different classes of people. Setters tend to be a lot more mellow/patient (not as puppies, they're lunatic puppies, one of the 2yo+ breeds), and do really well laying for hours under a desk while someone is at work, for example (also students; used for kids with high anxiety around reading/ dyslexia like crazy... They can stay under a desk for 8-10 hours perfectly happy happy happy & mega chill, until it's time to be doing, and then they're bounding along). Labs tend to get bored, meanwhile, and need more attention.

Breed temperament runs true in most dogs. Personality might highlight one area over another, but it's rare that you'd get a Great Dane who isn't a lapdog (really, biggest dang lapdogs on the planet), or a terrier who doesn't attack first and think later, greyhounds who don't spook, a husky who isn't bossy, or a depressed golden retriever (happy! happyhappyhappyhappy!!! Jooooooy!) Mixed breeds are always a coin toss. Or 24 sided dice toss. They could run with the temperment of any of their parent breeds... Or none at all.

Individuals really can vary, but I think I would start by finding a good breed-match.
 
@FridayJones I just barely stopped myself from having a similar tangent of thinking out loud about breed types. Thank you for including that huskies are usually a bad choice for people unprepared to handle their outdoor, energy, and leadership needs. It makes me gag that everyone I know wants a husky because "they're so pretty!"

I don't think sighthounds would always be a bad service choice (I'm currently infatuated with whippets), but in a house with a cat, it seems like a pretty poor choice.

As far as molasser (mastiff-type) breeds go, a lot of them can make incredible service dogs, but puppyhood is a bitch. My mastiff mutt is still hell on wheels at 15 months. Highly trainable, extremely loyal, super stable, good with dogs, even better with cats, but so much drive, and so much energy. Of course, he's a mix (american staffy, pretty sure), and bullmastiffs are notoriously bouncy pups to begin with, so he's not a great model for a molasser, but just saying, the young ones in this class can be extremely difficult to handle if you're looking for a ready-to-train service candidate. He's my service candidate (and my part-time job >.<), but dog training is one of my primary passions, and I bonded with him instantly as an individual.

Anyway, that out of the way, the molasser breeds that are calmer and less guard-oriented, like St. Bernards, Newfies, and Great Pyrs (with exceptions) are terrific working dogs, just expensive and a lot of coat maintenance.

Honestly, if I had to pick a single breed that would be a solid service candidate for the average joe, I would say poodle (of any size) OR, wait for it... an older staffordshire terrier (pit bull-type breed--NOT an American Pit Bull Terrier). They call pit bulls "bomb proof" dogs for a reason--the breed standard would be stable, extremely human-friendly, and with a lot of drive (which can be awesome for training). They just need to be at least 2-3 years of age and proofed thoroughly with various cats and dogs to ensure they don't have dog aggression or overactive prey drive.

I'm also partial to hounds and hound mixes, but their trainability is... interesting. Much different from the types of working dogs I'm used to, and I've found that stimulating their need to hunt is an absolute must.

Anyway, this lady sounds like she needs to cast a wider net. My dog, Annie, who could totally be registered for service, was deemed "unadoptable" due to her extremely submissive and frightened disposition. She had been through the wringer in her past life, and she was pretty messed up, but as soon as we spotted her, we knew she would have the perfect temp. And she does. Once she adjusted to having a safe, stable lifestyle, she was and has always been the best dog I've ever met. Super stable, extremely loyal, very smart, always calm, and always knows when to support me and how. It took about... three months? to rehabilitate her and socialize her. Now I wouldn't trade her for a billion dollars.

God, I've gotta get out of this thread, I know. Sorry. Soapbox about breeds that I tried not to write is now out there. Couldn't help myself this time, it seems. My thesis statement is that breed is an important factor for your lifestyle and individual needs, and sometimes it takes a long time to be sure what a dog can be.
 
Lol... I totally meant to go edit out that long meander! Oops. Oh well. Alls well that ends well.

Totally agree... Except I'd say poodles for single adults, case by case for families. A lot of poodles cannot stand kids. Which is quirky. Most pack animals like kids. We even like puppies...

<laughing> & Puppies are hell on earth!!! They survive on charm alone. Oy vey. Every time my biological clock would go nuts after my son started to grow up, a puppy would cure it. Dead heat from up all night, potty training, terrible2s, stupid6s, teenage idiocy... Shebam! All in 6 months!!! Whew! 18 years crammed into 6 months. Okay. And breathe. Granted, you can put the puppy in the kennel, unlike kids. But it still scratches the itch. (Itty bitty widdle... to OMFG. I need a timeout.).

Was in Brazil once, and these drop dead gorgeous guys would walk up and down the beaches with baskets of puppies. Drool. It's like a box of kittens. Does life get any better than beautiful boy giving you puppies to play with while drinking caiperenas on the beach? How can that not just be a super happy love-fest? And then, best part, they go back in the basket and go home. To someone else's home. Cause you're only renting them :D. Really, this needs to become something of a worldwide phenomena. Enterprising lads, everywhere, take note.

((I'm wicked tired, no filter. Crossing fingers.))
 
no no no! this is really actually very helpful to me!

Ok. look. Origionally someone suggested whippets but Whippets to me were too small and nervous. I went with the same KIND of dog in a larger version. Hence greys. The 'dog lady' is partial to her breed: greyhounds. It's hard to fault her.

Everything I've read had contradicted itself over and over. Get a herding dog, don't get a herding dog. Get a lab, don't get a lab. Get this, get that.

The trainer I've been working with keeps pushing me towards big fluffy herders and trying to tempt me with how "cute" they are. I am an odd ball. I am not a sucker for a cute face. I want to know you have my back. Do you? will you watch my back? Help me figure out when things are really safe? great. We are a team.

I had a great interaction with a grey once. I went to meet the breed and had a bad trigger with the very loud gent there. The lady's grey (not same as the of the people I mentioned before) came over and stuck to me like glue till I was ok again. Nuzzled my hand, made me pet her, etc. She KNEW I wasn't in a good spot. Once I was calmed down, she wandered away and took a nap nearby.

It showed me what a dog could do for me. I was suddenly very infatuated with greys because of it.

When shit gets bad I get lost in my trigger. Like really really bad focued on it. IF it keeps going I go into a flashback or panic attack. I can't break those myself.

What do I want? I want someone who's pretty tall so I can be standing and touch their head when triggered. Can take the lead when I am f*cked. Someone who's high energy but can take being in an office all day without going mad. I would think it was awesome if I had a running partner but not necessary. short hair is better. I already have the cat that freaking sheds all over everything seriously, I've consumed so much fur.
 
Yeah, puppies are cute about 15% of the time. Too many times this past year I ended up laid out on a couch, arms hung around Hamlet's neck, begging him to go to sleep for just ten minutes.

@desiderata310 Do you know what tasks you're looking for, specifically? How high is high energy for you? How much exercise can you commit to?
 
I had a great interaction with a grey once. I went to meet the breed and had a bad trigger with the very loud gent there. The lady's grey (not same as the of the people I mentioned before) came over and stuck to me like glue till I was ok again.
I'm totally not a dog expert - just a dog fan. But I think the one thing about off-the-track greyhounds is that they need to be rehabbed before they can go live anywhere. Kind of their own version of PTSD therapy, I think.

It's interesting, the one thing I keep picking up on, learning about all this, is that the dog will ideally be mature - both in terms of age (fully into adulthood) and in terms of psychology. Makes sense, really.
 
@Simply Simon I'm currently up to about 25-30 miles of running/week. That said, when I get depressed, really depressed, it's zero. I am all in or all out.

Tasks: there are some I'm really interested in. search the house when I first get home. I have this thing I do: I have to go around the outside, then, I go through every room and check before I can relax. It's so damn hard. I've read that the dog can be taught to do that

Cover me. dog looks like they are watching my back. Makes me fel more secure since my abuser.. this is hard to talk about.. I live 2000 miles away and I'm still scared as shit that he's going to show up. I can't take public spaces anymore unless I am running/ riding... fight/flight.

Blocking. Man, shit. I need them to stay between me and others in public places and at work. People are stupid about personal space.

Grounding. Just like with the grey, she knew I was triggered (well, the whole f*cking room knew I was triggered by that point) and she stood there and snotted on my arm, poked at my hand with that wet nose, broke the spell. Kept me petting her. Pulled my focus.
 
anyway, yeah.. the depression vs. high energy workouts... that was another draw of the grey. they are either all out or all in...
Just this breed would have a hard time passing CGC. I need public access. dog needs to be able to go to work with me. It's a full out SD
 
Lol the
Get a A! Don't get an A!
Get a B! Don't get a B!
Is the breed standard and personality mixing with ours. Perfect dog for one, worst dog for the next.

Tall, strong, got your back? These would be my top 4 to look into:
- Mastiff
- Rottweiler
- Great Dane
- Pyrenees

All 4 of these guys have long puppyhoods... About 2 years before they start to settle down.

Less Big ... But still solid
- German shepherd dog
- Staffordshire terrier
- Smaller Rotties (Rottweilers generally come in huge & oh... You're not so big, afterall).

ETA... @desiderata310 ... Honestly, the more I think on it, the more I think you might match really well with a GSD. ((But do look Into the others, & any Simon thinks of!!,)) Esp. For cross-training (protection)/ versatility/ public ease with them (police & military dogs have people used to not trying to play with them in public when vested, but not be afraid of them either). Unlike some of the larger breeds which are magnets for 'Can I pet/play with him???'

That said... I was looking up something on Great Pyrenese (Pyrs were mountain rescue dogs, originally, well... Herders and rescue dogs. They're great in distressing times.) & stumbled across this funny/apt description : The Great Pyrenees dog breed's goal in life is to protect sheep, goats, livestock, people, children, grass, flowers, the moon, the lawn furniture, bird feeders, and any real or imaginary predators that may intrude on your personal space. Oh yeah, and to give, give, and give unconditional love.
 
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One of my dogs is a Border Collie X Great Pyrenees. Granted not an easy combination to find. But, he's probably the kind of dog that would work. He was fairly serious, even as a puppy. (He's 11 now.) Smart like a Border Collie, but not OCD, Walks the perimeter, even in the house, at regular intervals. Lots of endurance. (Would have loved the running, in his youth.) Not super protective, but he definitely lets you know if something is out of order. Bigger that most Border Collies, but not as big or as fluffy as an Pyrenees. Personally, I like Rottweilers, but you might want to check with your homeowner's insurance (if you have it). If my next dog is really a Rottweiler, it will have to be disguised as something else because my insurance company has them on the list of "unapproved dogs" (Did I mention we need to BAN insurance companies?)

Edited to add that I've had some really bad experiences with German Shepherds that were bred to be SHOW dogs. That's something you might need to consider with a lot of purebred dogs. Sometimes, when they go for extremes of conformation they breed the brains out of them.

AND, my other dog apparently wants me to mention that English Bulldogs are quite charming, even if they are short and not much into running. (She's staring at me.)
 
@scout86 if I could just have a dog for the sake of having a dog, I would probably have an english bulldog. Talk about a personality!

I had a German Shepherd Mix a few years ago whom I LOVED. Unfortunately, I don't think I could ever had another one. Just honestly, it's a trigger.

This is all very timely. I got triggered yesterday when I went in a Pet Smart yesterday. I hadn't been in one in years and i couldn't remember why. They were having an adoption event for cats and I decided to walk through since I know the person who's in charge of the event. It all came flooding back! The last time I was IN a Pet Smart was when I adopted that German Shepherd. I remembered because of the area they have set up for the cat adoption and that we had taken the dog over to see if he would work well with my daughter's cat.

It was a good memory mixed with a very BAD memory because of the fight that happened when I got back home and the things that happened to my German Shepherd at the hands of my ex years later. And yes, I never made the connection till yesterday. I actually adopted that dog ON VALENTINE's Day. It was just a very surreal moment for me and after the triggered way I started the day it pretty much ended the day for me. It was shocking to remember that in that way. I had not thought about how I got that dog in... years.. honestly.

sorry.. I LOVED that dog. Crazy the way the brain works.
 
@FridayJones was looking and I kinda LOVE the look and idea of a Great Dane! Seriously! And (a little research showed me) that they were cross bred mastiffs with Wolfhound and greyhounds. (hmmm. I'm on to a theme here)They are part of the gentle giant breeds. Big enough to lean on me and get my attention. So ok, maybe not the brightest in the world but when crossed with something else...

I'm drawn to the idea of a short hair, big dog.

Pyrenees.. man.. that's a lotta fur.
Mastiff... I might discover access problems with a drooler.

My therapist's dog is some sort of Staffordshire terrier/ Pit bull/herding something.. Not full blooded but man, that face. It's close. His face isn't quite as triangular. Not quite as stocky in his build but that boy has some of that in him. Worth a look even if he's smaller. Actually he looks a good bit like an american pit but he's not. His temperament though. That dog... my therapist's new office has a small court yard in the back which is where I usually go since I am the first person of the day. My therapist will open the door and let the dog out and he comes over and greets me. It doesn't matter how anxious or how bad a day I am starting with, that silly dog bounding over puts a smile on my face EVERY DAMN TIME. He makes it SO much easier for me to just get IN THE DOOR. Pretty much all good associations with that dog. Always trying to rummage through my backpack when I sit down. Always hears the same things I do and alerts and then relaxes so that I can. I digress...

Jeeze. I really am a spaz.

The trainer chick (also PTSD sufferer) is going to come by my office later today to reevaluate what we need to do (I'm stuck babysitting the building today- here in case the building catches fire or someone has a heart attack).I'm going to talk to her about these. She's mentioned BIG fuzzy dogs before and GSD but these suggestions are REALLY helpful.

Not so sure that greys are going to work. I suppose at some point I should just tell the dog lady and just not go in that direction but part of me is holding out hope that she might actually have a grey that would work. I am just NOT going to go to that festival to meet it. BEFORE I was PTSD I could handle festivals for a bit. I can't abide them at all now.

WOOF! who knew this would be so damn hard?!
 
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