Dealing With A Narcissist (successfully?)

[scout86]

It's amazing how often "narcissists" get brought up around here! To be clear, neither my mother nor my brother have an official diagnosis. That's not uncommon with narcissists, as I understand it. They don't seek help/diagnosis because, according to their version of reality, there's nothing wrong with THEM. But, for what it's worth, my T says he's quite confident that they both meet the criteria for Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

My mom died a couple of weeks ago. My dad died late last summer. My brother has been the "go to guy" for them the past few years. To be clear, this is because it's the way my mother, and my brother, wanted it. My dad wanted everyone to get along. (My dad was a good guy, but may have also believed in unicorns......) I told both of my parents that, as long as they were ok with things, I was ok with things. That if, at any point, they weren't ok with what my brother was doing, I'd try to step in. No one ever said anything. A couple of times, my brother went on about how hard he had it and I asked what I could do to help. I was always told "nothing". Once or twice I made suggestions and they were always shot down.

None of that was a problem. I'm a bit more like my dad. If they were happy, I was happy. And, I preferred not to get involved. (My T says that one of my jobs within the family was, apparently. to be "wrong". Well, I don't need THAT.)

Now that my mom has died, my brother is carrying on rather extravagantly about what a martyr he is. And I'm the greedy vulture circling the body of our barely dead mother.

She had a will. I'd like to know what it says. The will is in a box (or was) in the closet of the house he bought from her a few weeks before she died. He says that there's "some money in a couple of accounts" and half of that is mine, after the bills are paid. Could be. Many things "could be". She may have left all of her assets to the Hell's Angels for all I know. I'd kind of like to see the will. That would be why she WROTE it. (sigh)

I was supposed to pick up a few items from her house, back when it was her house. Asked Brother when would be a good time and never got a reply. NOW, that's my fault because I didn't call him and ask that way. If I'd only have called...... Whatever.

So, I'm trying to decide what to do. What I WANT to do is wash my hands of the whole mess. I've made it this far in life on my own, I don't need any help from the likes of them now.

I've gotten a variety of versions of why I might want to find a different way to look at that. Some legal, some financial, some ethical, and at least one psychological. (So, am I "punishing myself" more by dealing with this mess or by walking away from it????)

I'm wondering if anyone here has ever engaged in a legal battle with a narcissist and had it come to a good end. It's been my experience that my brother gets what he wants. Period. Doesn't matter who's "right or wrong", He's set enough in his version of reality that reasoning with him is out of the question. He's stonewalled my requests to see the will so far and, push come to shove, he has the capacity to make the will go away anyhow.

I'm open for ideas and suggestions. I'm also trying to figure out what to do about going down to pick up the items I wanted to pick up 2 months ago. I WAS going this weekend. Things have taken an ugly and kind of crazy turn since then and I'm not so sure I want to go. For the first time, it's crossed my mind that he might be more of a nut case than I thought...

 

[Deleted member 1860]

If the will is in his favor, its in his best interest to show it to you. If the will splits everything 50/50, then maybe that's why he's hiding things. Will be damned, the law says that you and your brother, as closest heirs, split everything if there is no will (or a will that goes "lost"). Me thinks he thinks that if he doesn't show you the will that he can get it all. Nope, nope, not at all, nope! (I have/had two narcs in the family, so I know a bit about their behavior and how they think.) {{{ETA, in many states this is the case, no will=everything split equally. Your state may be different.}}}

Is your brother the executor of the estate?

My mother, who has narc tendencies is executor of her father's estate. He was a narc, too. Her brother is trying to fight her on the will, but in my mom's defense, she plans on splitting everything up according to the will and is being fair about people getting certain possessions out of their house. Not that they had much of value, it was mostly things that people want for sentimental reasons. My mom gave me the few things that I wanted. Sorry for this bit of tangent....

If you don't care about things in the house (not even for sentimental reasons) and you don't care about any inheritance, then it may be in your best interest to simply walk away.

But, legally, the law will define how your parents' estate is divided up. However, that doesn't mean your brother won't fight you tooth and nail, attempt to hide things, and so on.

Do you have the financial resources to hire a lawyer? My mom's lawyer works by the hour, so no retainer was paid or anything like that.

Did your parents live in a state where wills are registered? My grandparents didn't. Unfortunately their will went lost. (Honestly, lost! My mom knew it divided up everything equally and the law would have done the same without a will. She needed it in order to be the official executor of the estate though, as my grandparents wanted.)

 

[ghotiff]

The will can't be formally read without a death certificate, which can take upto 6weeks (in Australia).

A legal will should be held with a solicitor and released to the executor when the death certificate is issued. If you ring around local solicitors they will tell you if they have the will and who the executor is but no more.

I would find this out first. Knowing the executor may change everything.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

@ghotiff,

Here in the states it varies by state and in many states, a will is not required to be registered in order to be a legally binding document. Her brother may indeed have control of the only copy.

 

[scout86]

In this state, wills don't have to be registered. You also don't, technically, need a lawyer to write one. You do need witnesses. From what I've been able to find, my mom didn't have a lawyer. (She gave me a "where everything is" folder that has a place for a lawyer's name and that's blank.) A relative told me that my mom told her she had made my brother and I BOTH "personal representatives", which is what this state calls executors. Of course, that would be in the will and anything else doesn't mean much. Without a will, one might hope the court would appoint a neutral party, but that costs money too.

There are a few (very few) things that I was given and have been trying to arrange to pick up since March. Otherwise, no sentimental stuff. I have no idea how much money is involved. It's quite possible that it's enough to make a significant difference. But, my experience with these kinds of encounters is that they drag on, get ugly, and usually end badly for me.

I have hired a lawyer, but am going to try to keep that expense to a minimum. I've used him before and he's been pretty good that way. Not much reason for optimism though, is there?

 

[Friday]

What's the worst that can happen?

(Ahem. Actual question, not rhetorical.)

 

[Flossy]

The exact same situation happened to me in August last year. I decided to re-engage.

The result? = Increased hopes for a 'family', lots of my money spent travelling there, lots of time communicating, Six months of slow descent into hell, severe depression + wanting to be dead on my part ....then back to No Contact. He's an a##hole Narcissist.

It has taken me another extra three months and a whole new medication regime to get myself back to wanting to live.

It was not worth it. I wish I had left it be and not responded to hope. I hope this helps you make your decision in the best way to protect yourself.

 

[Flossy]

Just a reminder, that you may not believe yet. When a N gets a sense of power, at any level, they will milk it to the full extent to prove their superiority in intellect or specialness or organisation. Anything to get some supply. You do not exist except as a tool to prove this 'fact' of their superiority through.

I sound bitter, but if my friend was contemplating engaging with their NC narcissist brother, I would shake them and tell them to run like hell the other way and to not answer their phone for six months.

 

[scout86]

What's the worst that can happen?

I've been asking myself that. For 2 reasons. One is tactical. In my experience, "the worst that can happen" is probably where this is going and it's usually something I overlooked.. The other reason I've been asking that it to try to keep things in perspective. This is the kind of thing that tends to stir up PTSD related reactions rather than rational thoughts on my end.

After the last email he sent, it crossed my mind that it MIGHT be possible to get him so enraged that he'd do more than fling words at me. He's a big guy. I could beat him in a physical fight when we were kids, I'm not so sure that would happen now. (He's 6' 4", just the reach advantage he has gives me pause.)

Beyond that, the worst this is likely to do is a bunch of triggering of old pathways. As far as any money goes, I don't have it now so I can't actually lose it, LOL. As far as "relationships" go, there's nothing much to lose. Oh, he could potentially rally extended family to his cause, but I've been so distant from most of them for so long that wouldn't change much either.

You do not exist except as a tool to prove this 'fact' of their superiority through.

I grew up with this, from my mother especially. I get it, believe me. But, that fact that someone else doesn't value you turns out NOT to mean that you don't have value.(See, 2+ years of therapy actually taught me something!) And I'm not sure that I want the fact that he is what he is to allow this situation to go his way, unchallenged.

 

[Friday]

Okay. So he could come physically after you. That's probably always true, so let's scratch it for the moment.

PTSD & stress could derail your life for up to a few years. So that seems like the biggest worry.

Seems like you've got a good plan going for both : Get the will read, and decide if the assets involved are worth letting your attorney handle everything... As long as it doesn't get too close to home. Your T on board for monitoring so you don't get in too deep without realizing it?

As far as your brother goes... It's a win/win situation.

- he gets everything with no fight from you
- he gets to flounce about in court and preen himself silly whilst dragging as many people through the mud as possible... AND as long as he sees himself the victor (aka gets "more") will be fat and happy.

Both of which suck for everyone around him.

So, since either way he's in the cream? I say do what's best for you.

Not in a "How to avoid spinning up the psychopath" kind of way ... But because he's already spun up. And there's nothing you could have done (short of granting your mother immortality) to stop that. Her death has created this situation. He's as likely to come making threats if you do nothing (in order to intimidate you / convince himself he's the one "making" you do nothing, or because he's convinced silence and assertations of disinterest mean you're seriously plotting & might be a serious threat) as if you do anything. At least, from my own experiences with psychopathy ii with narcissistic tendencies.

As long as you and your attorney don't thoroughly take him to the cleaners... There's pretty much nothing you could do to make things worse. He's already activated. So at this point it's all about making things better for you and your life.

 

[scout86]

As far as your brother goes... It's a win/win situation.

Good points! That's actually an additional plus for him. He's heavily engaged playing "martyr". He's to "good, faithful, devoted son" who's gone the extra mile and carried the load these past couple years. I, on the other hand, am the cold-blooded, heartless, greedy sibling who hasn't been around and is now looking for money. (Some of that is actually slightly true, but not for the reasons he presents. So, I'll be giving him an opportunity to expand on that. (Picture the world's smallest violin.....)

There's pretty much nothing you could do to make things worse.

That's one of the things I've been telling myself. LOL My T has actually been a LOT of help. He says, because I value "high quality, up to date, useful information" the way I do, I feel somewhat compelled to pass my thoughts along those lines on to others. He's explained that my brother (and others of his ilk) do NOT value that kind of information and, if you try to explain something to them that you think they merely don't understand, it won't work, it will infuriate them, and it will provide opportunities for them to change the apparent subject. I get that now. The next question is how well I'll remember it under pressure.

My plan, at the moment, is to go down there on Sat (5 hour drive, one way) and pick up the 3 items that I've wanted to pick up for the past several months. He was raving, last I heard from him about how I should bring a trailer because he was planning on sending me home with and assortment of "stuff" of HIS choosing and he was "sure it still wouldn't be enough", I picking up the 3 items and a copy of the will, if possible. Anything else will be handled later, in a different venue. I'm sure there will be shouting and raging from his side. I intend to stay far enough away from him that he can't reach me and keep the keys for my truck and my cellphone handy. The shouting and raging and sarcasm is going to be a challenge. Partly because those things formed my earliest relationship, with my mom. Partly because my whole life I've had reasons to hold back my responses. This time, it's going to be tempting to get sucked in to an verbal encounter that would be counter productive at best. So, I'm going to concentrate on following my T's advice and stick to the limited objectives of the "mission", 1) Pick up the clock, the bookcase, and the painting. 2) get the will, if possible 3) head for home ASAP.

@FridayJones , you've made me feel better about all this. I'm looking at it as form of "exposure therapy". LOL

 

[Flossy]

@scout86
I'm sorry my warning was not what you needed to hear. I really did mean it for you to protect your self.

I hope whatever happens does not cause a spiral for you, like it did for me.

I really do wish that for you. All best wishes. Safe journey. :)