Depression or Anxiety?

[Friday]

This is where I am confused ^^. I experience this with anxiety, paralysis, helplessness, despair.

Those two examples were of how the same thing “fear” goes in 2 different directions for me depending on whether they’re being affected by anxiety or depression. (I’ve edited it a smidge to hopefully make that clearer.)

I could also example out

(Helplessness) Anxiety
(Helplessness) Depression

(Suicidal) Anxiety
(Suicidal) Depression

(Despair) Anxiety
(Despair) Depression

(Paralysis) Anxiety
(Paralysis) Depression

(Joy) Anxiety
(Joy) Depression

(Loss of emotion) Anxiety >>> Cold & Hard
(Loss of emotion) Depression >>> Numb
^^^ I touched on this one in my first example.

Etc.

The exact same emotion or state of being, zigs or zags going in 2 very different directions, depending on whether it’s being affected by anxiety or depression. Nothing is unique to itself. Everything exists in a series of patterns, spectrums, spheres of influence. I can’t just say “I’m afraid, therefore ______.” Instead? I have to look at what direction it’s jagged off into.

 

[Sideways]

Anxiety and depression. Best buddies. Where you have one? Elements of the other are often close behind.

I’ve had elements of both for a long long time. I tend to apply coping strategies to individual problem symptoms as they occur. Teasing out whether it’s one of the other has become a fairly redundant question because it’s always just shades of both for me.

 

[Tinyflame]

Thank you @Innordinate @Friday @Sideways , though I am sorry you 'get it'. ?

I suppose @Sideways it would be more important to know, re: meds?

Thanks @Friday that is helpful as I did not know, I suppose I thought the end result was the 'cause' (anxiety= anxiety; depression= depression), though you are right they don't seem to come from the same place always. Just as easily as despair could also follow exhaustion, or frustration could follow fear, etc. Not the emotion itself. Which I would think infers different ways to handle it/ go after it. Which makes sense too, because I don't treat other people automatically as though what their feeling is superficial/ one way or reason only.

I didn't even remember there are that many states/ emotions. I guess what's ridiculous is that I have trouble even figuring out exactly 'what' I am feeling- and what's the name for this? :confused: And is this an emotion or a state of mind?

Anyway hope this makes sense as it's a bit all over the map and finding words difficult today. Thank you to all. :hug:

 

[Tinyflame]

I realize something that I never realized until I read these responses here: when I've felt the not-caring (in absence of anger), and lack of feeling, I always thought I was either numb, or simply my feelings must have changed (?), which meant my thoughts must have changed too to feel differently I guessed , even if I didn't really know why or there wasn't much or any thought about it, or sufficient reason to explain it, other than maybe I am fickle? I never would have thought of it as depression.

 

[Tinyflame]

I haven't re-read this all but though I'm still not clear, I feel my depression comes more from anxiety, and as the anxiety to a great degree needs thoughts or fears or interpretation or awareness to exist, it should be possible to alter it by changing thoughts. The problem is, I believe the thoughts or fears. If I can't do much about them, it seems depression sets in, because I guess I'm not very comfortable riding the wave of (potential or current) suffering. I know somewhere I learned the inability to believe otherwise is related to low or little self-compassion, but I don't see how that relates to the above, at all. except maybe to say, if you have self-compassion a person can feel loved or whatever, and maybe then not feel so alone and resourceless when it comes to the challenges of life, or just forget about them more. Idk, really. I can't see where that even remotely relates to a harsh inner critic, only reality. The only thing I know is as I type this I can hear the faintest sound of like an alarm clock, and there's none here, so I'm wondering if it's the neighbour's , or where it's possibly coming from, since I can hear a clock tick a flight away with hypervigilance. It's very distracting and unnerving. :(

 

[VioletButterfly]

(((((@Tinyflame ))))))

I feel them simultaneously as well because hypervigilence seems to be hardwired in me at this point and never leaves. So, I'm always feeling or trying to manage some level of anxiety. Depression is probably at a constant as well in terms of my feelings and the effect it has on my thinking. They both can and do intensify and debilitate me. The never/ever/forever lies are far worse these days than the inner critic, although she still has plenty to say.

Not sure this is relevant or helpful to you, but wanted to share in case it is......

I have learned that using compassion instead of criticism toward myself in moments where I'm spinning out or spiraling down is far more effective in helping stabilize myself. When I'm stronger, I do try to talk back to the lies and critic with evidence and not emotion. I don't snap back with a "STOP" as I was told to do in ED therapy - yea, that's just not effective, and I don't try to reason with those thoughts/voices either. Waste of time. So, I try to support myself each day with staying in the middle as best I can, staying away from all or nothing thinking and its lying cousins as I can. Right now, that means a lot of self wrangling sometimes, and othertimes it means a lot of hugs and distraction. Like when I pray, my mind will start out on target, but then it strays out to all of the stressors in my life, the fears, etc... and before you know it, I'm having to mentally go out with my lasso to try to pull myself back in so that I can concentrate on the present moment and the task at hand. I try to treat myself softly these days because it's something I don't think I've ever had - soft, fluffy, caring and supportive love. So, maybe if you can practice daily on supporting yourself you might find that the critic's voice and it's lies are affecting you less (in degrees) than before, and it will sound like that distant alarm clock instead of a jarring car horn in your face. Its seems to kind of be about changing your focus and who/what you want to listen to in your mind. Once you can relax that a bit and the practice seems to be a bit more of a natural thing for you instead of a concentrated effort, then maybe the body will start to trust and relax as well??? I'm not sure. I'm still in practice mode myself.

Praying for some peace for you. ?

 

[Tinyflame]

Thank you very much @VioletButterfly . :hug: ?

 

[Friday]

If I can't do much about them, it seems depression sets in,

This is totally me.

I’ve got this... window... where if I can act? I’m fine. Better than fine, even. Part of that is the whole ‘action kills fear’ thing, but a bigger part is that I’m actually accomplishing something.

. I know somewhere I learned the inability to believe otherwise is related to low or little self-compassion, but I don't see how that relates to the above, at all.

Taken straight? It makes zip, zero, nada, zilch sense to me, either. HOWEVER? One of the things I’ve been working on with my kid... is exactly that! :roflmao::hilarious::roflmao:

Crazy how a change in perspective can alter perspective, hey?

So this is what he does: He gets freaked out about something, and pulls back / doesn’t get done what he wants to get done OR there’s simply nothing TO be done, right now... and.. he.. beats.. himself.. up. Totally guts himself, hates himself, rakes himself over the coals. Which only makes everything a 1,000 times harder and kills any joy or usefulness in the moment. It’s this guilt/shame/self-hatred thing which spirals into misery and depression... and he completely misses out on soooooooo many things!

Some/Many of these cycles are mountains out of molehills (is going to be 15 minutes late to a 6 hour school day, beats himself up, and ends up missing the whole day. Then he beats himself up about that and misses the next day, and the next, and a week, and onward. The more he beats himself up, the worse it gets, and the harder it gets to pull up out of the nosedive. Roiling in pain... when “all” he had to do? Was either be 15 minutes late, or skip that class and go onto the next one! :banghead: Just a molecule of cocky self confidence, or cutting himself even just a little bit of slack, at ANY point in this cycle and he’d have been fine. Kiddo! You’ve got this! C’mon, man!

So if I replace “self compassion” :wtf: with “cutting himself some slack” :woot: or “cocky self confidence” :sneaky:, or even oo7 it up a bit with “quantum of solace” (ahhhhhh :smug: )... Yeah. I can sooooooo see how freaking vital it is. When it’s someone else. But I have to step outside myself in order to see that. Otherwise it simply doesn’t parse. In no small part because I just don’t gel with the word/concept. But it’s twins? Same concept, different way to describe it? Oh now THAT makes sense!

***

One of the things we used to do when he was little (ADHD kid, so you can probably relate! Emotions don’t fade, they have to be hard reset manually, if they don’t switch on their own) is use a marble jar to “start the day over”, whilst working on emotional monitoring and regulation. In the beginning the day was broken into a zillion parts. Wake up to breakfast. Breakfast to getting ready for school. Etc. No meltdown = 2 marbles. Starting to meltdown, but gets himself in hand before it kicks off = 1 marble. Lose it? = 0 marbles. Next segment starts in a tick! Brand new chance for 2 marbles! :D As he got better and better we sectioned then day into longer pieces. 15/10/8/5/3/1 whole day. ((Filling the marble jar? BIG prize, of one’s choosing. A puppy. A seaplane flight. A trip. A membership.))

...I’m thinking? We need to bring back the marble jar! (For BOTH of us!) Not for meltdowns, this time, but for cocky self confidence / cutting yourself some slack. (“Self compassion” just squicks me out :wtf: ) To relearn/retrain the ability to “shift” from beating yourself up, to clear mindedness & purpose... before it can sink into despair and depression, helplessness and crushed days/weeks. Whether there’s action that can be taken or not? Having the resilience to shake it off, laugh it off, wait it out without being weighed down, take a deep breath and keep moving.

 

[Tinyflame]

Oh wow @Friday , yes, relate to every word. And has come in the nick of timeliness. I just don't have words to reply atm, but thank you, for now. ?

 

[Tinyflame]

Having the resilience to shake it off, laugh it off, wait it out without being weighed down, take a deep breath and keep moving.

How do we do this internally @Friday ? Or, in other words, if the outside looks ok, but the inside is not?

Thank you for that, and any other tips or ideas.