Do Any Kinds of Dissociation Feel Like This?

[9eisios]

Trying to paint a picture of it. So, some backdrop of anxiety lingers, even if you're used to it. You may be aware you are usually not satisfyingly grounded in immediate occurrences. Here's the thread focus: there are times you experience an abrupt degeneration/decline in self that mentally moves some part of you elsewhere; like your typical face/form for a stuation gets swapped for an ill-suited or generally disoriented one. It can happen randomly in a moment. Sometimes it feels like becoming too aware of space/time, then suddenly you're not detecting stimuli the same anymore. You were predictable before this but now you're like a different person in a foreign body, even if you recognize yourself. It can last for days or weeks maybe. Not like I keep count. Anytime following this you have a feeling or emotion that 'feels wrong' like it has become dysfunctional yet you know you've dealt with the feelings and emotions fine at points before. Maybe they don't feel like your own and you burn out trying to retitle them as yours. Makes getting up to do things overly taxing because you're confused how to apply motivations to yourself. I don't know. Sound familiar? It doesn't seem like depersonalization or derealization.

 

[joeylittle]

It doesn't seem like depersonalization or derealization.

What you're describing does sound dissociative, though - and quite a bit like depersonalization.

there are times you experience an abrupt degeneration/decline in self that mentally moves some part of you elsewhere...Sometimes it feels like becoming too aware of space/time, then suddenly you're not detecting stimuli the same anymore. You were predictable before this but now you're like a different person in a foreign body, even if you recognize yourself.

The phrases in bold are typical expressions of depersonalization, specifically. But dissociation takes many forms, and it exists on a fairly broad spectrum.

Understanding a dissociative state - especially one's own - is almost impossible to do, without an impartial observer. In other words, you can describe what it feels like to you when its happening, but that's only 50% of the event. You'd need a clinician observing you in real time in order to get an accurate assessment.

Are you working with a therapist/psychologist/psychiatrist right now?

 

[9eisios]

@joeylittle Thanks for relocating the thread (if you did), the reply and clarification. I'd feel less crazy if you're right! I keep seeing definitions stated as "feeling like you're watching a boring movie of your life; feeling like an automaton; observing the self outside the body." For years I couldn't relate. Thought I couldn't have a dissociative disorder til I started not recognizing my face in mirrors sometimes.

I keep getting hurdles and delays when trying to make appointments thru eap, so I gave up and tried dealing with it myself, albeit ineffectively. I want my life to make sense to me even if I have to do it myself

 

[shimmerz]

is almost impossible to do, without an impartial observer.

I agree, although sometimes this is impractical or worse still - impossible. Life happens. The good thing about being able to dissociate and recognizing it as such is that one can then 'mindfully' create an observer part. My healing game completely changed once I was able to do so.

feeling like you're watching a boring movie of your life; feeling like an automaton; observing the self outside the body." For years I couldn't relate.

I had the same problem. I kept being asked where I was 'seeing myself from' because it was clear I was dissociating but I didn't tick all of the boxes so they gave me a definition of DDNOS (back in the day).

At this point my therapist and I recognize that my trauma happened when I was unaware of 'external' (an infant) and therefore I go 'inside' of myself. Which tends to cause my senses to get all screwed up and I get super disoriented.

so I gave up and tried dealing with it myself,

I didn't have the option of a therapist for a very long time as well. So what I did was I learned a few NLP processes that were helpful in my creating my own observer self. I learned how to dissociate myself, which actually was a good thing because it gave me a foundational place to go to when I dissociated to a damaged part of myself.

Not sure if this video will help but it sure did give me a place to start without a therapist.

 

[shimmerz]

Just in response to a couple of direct questions @9eisios asked me directly on my profile ....

1. What in your daily life is/has been affected when you dissociate and 'go inside' yourself?

I am getting a bit lost as I type this. Please be patient with me. To say it was a difficult time would be an understatement of epic proportions. DV that ran over 2.5 years after I left was what happened to trigger me into a regression to an infantile state (dissociative) had me dropping like a rock - sometimes for almost a week at a time. This was a relatively new although chronic body/mind split. I had no warning these 'drop attacks' were going to take place.

If I wasn't dropping, I would have flashbacks (preverbal ones) that I just couldn't seem to piece together. Took me almost a decade to figure it out - to put words to it.

Anyway, it was a catastrophic loss of everything. I lost my business; my ability to live in a confined space; or even be in a confined space with any one person, let alone a group of people. I went homeless for over a decade for this reason. Friends. Many could not handle the pain of watching me work through all this shit. Please don't worry about this for yourself. I believe my situation and subsequent reactions to DV which triggered my downfall, to not be the norm.

The thing is, I was adopted. I had no real accounting of my first two years. I went to Children's Aid and fought for an accounting of what happened to me during those 2 years. It was bad. Very, very, very bad. Prior to that I had been warned by my T to shore up on my trauma tools before I went to CAS. That - for me - took about 5 years before I was ready. Especially given that my finances were quickly turning into a non-existent resource so I had to figure those tools out on my own.

I also had to learn how not to allow the accounting of what was currently happening to me - the homelessness I suffered through - my extreme poverty - to add to my past trauma. It was f*cking brutal, I have to tell you. I did that by switching as often as I could into 'observer mode' - mindfully .

Most of my actions were based on memories that I had no verbal accounting of. I have spent the better part of 15 or so years to sort out what actually happened to me.

During that time I learned an awful lot of lessons about dissociation and trauma in general. I learned my nervous system was jacked and had to look at that (which in itself was a form of mindful dissociation) I learned that dissociation is basically a mind/body split and the ultimate goal was to work on integrating mind/body. I have basically had to 'repair myself' on my own. I researched like a dog up until recently. Now I do what my t-doc suggested a few years ago. I watch cute kitty videos instead of hard core research.

Tools I have used. Quick listed....

Feldenkrais I used to re-establish my mind body connection.
NLP was a big one to deal with flashbacks (which were completely debilitating) and dissociation.
EFT for f*cked up belief systems.
Neuroplasticity knowledge for understanding how to 'trick' the brain.
Learning how to identify simple emotions and then more complex emotions.
Learning about internal and external references (basically, how could I know how to protect others and not myself).
Understanding conversion disorder and realizing that the body always warns when I switched into trauma mode. Learning how to identify warnings that I was (let's say switching although I am not MPD).

2. When did you suspect these experiences were more complex than just being part of your personality (e.g. one may see oneself as moody or a space cadet rather than discerning abuse as a source)?

I knew right away. Although I had had a few incidents of dropping when I was younger - they didn't crush me like they did after the DV. I just wasn't able to use professional people in the know - not until more information was out there on the internet.

To help you get to what I think you are attempting to get to in this question - which may be more specifically - How/when did you recognize that your internal experience was not 'normal' (if that is a word) but rather had been built around abuse/terror. Maybe? And actually I do have an answer for this now that I think about it. I realized it when I recognized (I was led to it by T) that my pain experience was vastly different that the norm. My extreme body reactions made it obvious in so many ways that something was wrong and it just took a T who wasn't afraid of trauma to let me know that this was the 'norm' for someone who had had overwhelmingly abusive incidents as an infant/child. That was so hard to learn.

I am sorry if this posting seems a bit disjointed. It was an intense time and I can feel my head spinning in that 'dissociative way' and I had had a difficult time concentrating. I hope you can make some sense of it and please don't hesitate to ask anything you think may help you.

Oh, also, there is a posting out there having to do with Structural Dissociation with a shitload of great information in it -
Structural Dissociation?

Be well....

 

[9eisios]

Just in response to a couple of direct questions @9eisios asked me directly on my profile ....

1. What in your daily life is/has been affected when you dissociate and 'go inside' yourself?

It helped me reading about your internal conflict, how you coped before, throughout, after therapy, and the origins you provided. Totally demonstrative of complexity behind trauma. For additional context how is it dealing with this from the point you're at now on a day to day basis?

I realized it when I recognized (I was led to it by T) that my pain experience was vastly different that the norm. My extreme body reactions made it obvious in so many ways that something was wrong and it just took a T who wasn't afraid of trauma to let me know that this was the 'norm' for someone who had had overwhelmingly abusive incidents as an infant/child. That was so hard to learn.

How would you describe yourself when you weren't regressing?

I am sorry if this posting seems a bit disjointed. It was an intense time and I can feel my head spinning in that 'dissociative way' and I had had a difficult time concentrating. I hope you can make some sense of it and please don't hesitate to ask anything you think may help you.

Thank you for opening up about this. It's began a sort of new journey for me observing specifics about myself lately.

Oh, also, there is a posting out there having to do with Structural Dissociation with a shitload of great information in it -
Structural Dissociation?

Be well....

That right there.... I've researched complex ptsd, attachment theory and dissociation for years now and never came across that.. Seems more detailed than what I'd read of DPDR. Could explain unusual shifts in regulation I'd felt and continually experience. I don't think it gives me clues to why I have such an unwieldy awareness within my own body. I'd love if my "ANP" could be as functional as I've read. Mine is not...developed(?) as far as being efficient or communicative, much less "apparently normal." My identity and relationships are greatly built on how well I mirror others, and since I don't do it well, my friendships are all mechanical and stilted - at least until those random shifts occur where I temporarily/preferentially act more in touch with myself, albeit angrily. Never lasts. You're more learned on structural dissociation than I. Does that fit in here or anywhere else?

 

[shimmerz]

For additional context how is it dealing with this from the point you're at now on a day to day basis?

So I am going to say that the biggest thing right now is that I am out of 'loss' and 'more trauma' stages and am safe and sound in my housing. Housing is my trauma. When housing is safe for me then I am back (basically) to normal. And I do have a 'normal' to go by which some don't so I am grateful for that.

I have incredible thankfulness for the opportunities I now have to get my life back again. I don't use gratitude so much as I do thankfulness. That is a grounding emotion for me. I am going to say that now, as well, I am the full on engineer of my life. I eat mindfully (properly and healthy foods). I have quit smoking. So I think based on what you are asking me - I have decided to take back my agency and am asking myself very often 'What do I want to do in the next ...... to feel good. That may mean going for a walk. Stepping outside to chat. Driving somewhere. Food shopping. Looking for kick ass raw-ish food recipes. Mixing essential oils. These are all things that I have prepared myself for - back in the day - in CASE I could do this stuff again. My default mode for decision making is 'is it good for body/mind'? If so, no thinking about it - my plan is to restore the 'comfort' part of my self. I was horribly oblivious to my comfort prior to this healing I have been doing.

I believe watching screens too much aids in dissociation. I have been very careful to engage in 3D activities as often as possible. I notice that I completely zone out if watching tv or on the computer mindlessly. I am painting furniture. Walls. Moving things around and organziing them in the place I live. Making the space appealing. I have watched to make sure the colors are warm and/or colorful. I am thinking about offering my services to walk dogs. I haven't decided if I am ready for that one yet.

I am trying to do yoga. I still feel like someone is going to come up behind me and kill me. Working on this....

Everything is about health. Eating. Sleeping. Movement as best as I can. As noted above, movement is still challenging for me since I spent so much time over the past decade and a half with my body either shaking or freezing. Psychologically it is all about my thoughts. I try to bring a sense of curiosity into the strain of thoughts I have. Yesterday I went out for a car ride because I was curious if I could drive far enough that the weather was nice and I could go for a walk. For me the big deal is to keep moving.

The idea is to not avoid but rather to replace activities that I know would have had me dissociate with things that I can reframe as being 'curious' or loving or acts of kindness or sharing. It's hard to stay away from things that make me dissociate if I can't name what happened to bring me to dissociation - so instead I focus on what brings joy. Oh, and nobody gets joy from me unless they appreciate the effort it takes. So my relationships have changed as well. I used to just do - do - do for people. Not now. I have a great deal of discernment that I didn't have before.

I also am careful as to what I do and how it is affecting my brain. I was playing a game online for a bit that I got pretty attached to (probably because it helped me tune out). I started noticing that I would see flashes of the game during the day in my mind when not playing it. I stopped it. That is agency. Deciding what is helpful given my dissociation and what I may be doing to enable the behaviour. I mercilessly strip out anything that adds to zoning out.

I am also building a model of how I want my life to be. I want to be able to go for walks so I have put a great deal of time into imagining just that. It has taken about 3 months but finally I am able to walk for long distances without feeling like someone is going to come up from behind me and kill me. I was working on that with an Occupational Therapist and she was wonderful. She got me not thinking about safety (which trauma people do by nature) but instead about the joy of different routes; listening to birds and watching sunrises, taking pictures of things that are lovely. It will be a slow process but I am getting there.

How would you describe yourself when you weren't regressing?

Strong, driven, stubborn, determined, responsible, opinionated, (nothing worse than stubborn and opinionated all wrapped in together). Kind, thoughtful, intellectual, left brained (little to no creativity), fair (to a fault), tenacious as shit.

It's began a sort of new journey for me observing specifics about myself lately.

Great for you! This is exactly where it started for me. The NLP stuff really got me on my way when it came to healing on my own. It really fed the left brained side of myself too - which can be a trap. Nothing better to distract a traumatized person than trying to figure shit out. So setting goals and then recognizing when reaching those goals and moving forward is important.

Really great questions @9eisios, thank you. Please feel free, if you feel it helps, to reach out anytime. If I can help anyone NOT go through what I went through that would be a great thing.

Be well.

 

[shimmerz]

structural dissociation than I. Does that fit in here or anywhere else?

I apologize for the delay in responding to this question. I had to give it some thought.

I remember finding the information about SD and thinking O.M.G. This is SO me right now. So yes, in answer to your question, it sure does have relevance to this. For further context, back when this was happening to me, there were no drs. that could help me. Very little information on the internet. I was walking blind. My first T had told me I had DDNOS (which was a diagnosis at that time). That was clear as mud. 'You have a dissociative disorder but it is not something that can be described.' Gee. Thanks.

I kept saying to my T that I thought I was DID with an infant/2yr old. He kept saying that I was absolutely not DID. It was obvious at the time (to me and everyone else) that my body was not being run by the woman that people had known in the past. I was literally bolting out of houses - hiding in ditches - wandering the streets - broiling myself in cars. It was insane and overwhelming. And, getting back to the original part of this posting - I seemed to be able to observe myself literally freezing or broiling in the car - knowing that I was bolting out of the house and that wasn't safe - yet I could do nothing to stop myself.

Scary as shit. Completely overwhelming to me and everyone else that knew me.

SD was super helpful because it spoke about 'parts'. Through the DV I had lost my ANP. I kept looking for her but I couldn't find her. Instead I had something driving my bus that literally was going to get me killed. So it was a huge shift - I had never had those behaviours before. I didn't know how to work with something I didn't understand and had been given a label of 'Not Otherwise Specified'.

I have been a programmer / IT person all my life. In looking at the SD parts theory, I was able to chunk down (NLP) the problem and make it much less overwhelming. I know that the part of me that bolts out of houses turns her right foot in every time she needs to bolt. I figured that out when I realized that a 'part' was a set program that I wasn't certain of the origin and that I needed to figure out what the trigger was that ran that program. It wasn't a global problem for me - it had a trigger. That helped a ton.

So I paid attention to triggers - to the body expression that happened right before I was going to bolt and then got to work on rewriting the program.

That is how SD was helpful to me. Again, no idea if that was helpful or not - but those are my initial thoughts.