Do You Think Sympathy Really Helps In The End?

[cherryblossom]

Just to add, whether in real life or on a forum, there is a difference between giving blunt, honest advice, and being attacking.

E.G.
Attacking
Why on earth did you do that? You are so stupid. You should have done x,y,z.

Honest Advice
Do you know why you reacted in that way? Perhaps in future you could consider x,y,z.

There is a massive difference for the person on the receiving end. We all make mistakes, and don't always look after ourselves in the best way. But, we don't want to be judged as being stupid, insensitive, foolish etc - we probably feel that already, we don't need to hear more negative attacks regarding our flaws!

 

[suzie q]

I have tried to use a balance of empathy and "care-fronting". That's when you say "when you say this, I feel" or, "when you do this I feel". My therapist said that it allows the person your talking to a chance to see feelings and not just data. People tend to get defensive when "told" what they need. The care-fronting allows a two way dialogue without anger or resentments.(if done right! LOL)

 

[The Albatross]

Trying to intuit "tone" is tough in a written forum. I tend on the net to give the benefit of the doubt when initially disturbed.... because I can't hear the voice, the tone, the volume, orsee the body language. For hypervigilent people, like me this is a handicap... but one that I quickly became aware of (how much I rely on external clues for a sense of safety and trust instead of what the person is actually saying) because of the thread/post format.

I heartily agree that motive plays a big part in how I interpret communication. My own theory on this is a snip from an old Montel Williams segment (don't remember the topic)... he said, "Speak without offending, listen without defending." I don't know why but it clicked for me and it's hanging up in my living room above a doorway where I can see it most all of the time. That short and simple line helps me a lot to remember that there are basic rules of communication that I am responsible for, and that ultimately how I perceive any responding communication is also up to me. I can not know, for instance if someone bites my head off... what has preceeded this. Maybe they just got a speeding ticket, maybe I'm reading more into the situation than they intend, maybe they are sincerely trying to communicate an idea to me to be helpful, maybe I'm in a rough emotional place... maybe, maybe, maybe.

I'm learning that there are most often more than one way to perceive a situation and that sometimes, I can choose the one that best serves to get me where I want to go. A personal example is my communication with my spouse... for a long time I was coming from a place where I was hurt and distrustful because I felt betrayed. In counseling, though, I was asked if I thought my husband was a "good willed person". I had to really think about this for a time, but now it serves as a benchmark for our interactions and is one I find very helpful. I choose, flaws and all, to believe that my husband is a good willed person and is not out to get me.

Rambled quite a bit... but I really like this topic.

 

[cherryblossom]

And just to add, that before I was on PTSD forum, I was a a very 'successful' sexual abuse site. The number of members and messages on that site is huge..... But, when I posted I got loads of replies along the lines of "I hear you", "(((hugs)))", "I know how you feel, I feel the same way too", "I'm so sorry you feel this way, I am holding your hand", etc, etc. Whilst it was comforting to have people reply, the actual benefit to my 'healing' was zero. Whilst I was fortunate to meet a few amazing 'survivors' on that site, it did absolutely nothing for my 'healing'.

Now that I'm running the "Survive Sexual Assault" forum, I'm trying to provide a middle ground. Empathy and honest advice

 

[Philippa]

Yes, I've had the same experience. Once I calmed down I could see that what they were saying was right. Sometimes the harshest ones too.

Yes, I meant in real life, but on forums as well. Forum sympathy isn't the same as real life hugs and cups of tea anyway, so it isn't as comforting anyway.

I may have jumped to assumptions when reading your initial post Philippa. I assumed you were talking about sympathy with regards to this forum, but I now see that your post doesn't mention this. Apologies for that.
My reply was with regards to the forum, not real life.

Although my opinion isn't much different for real life situations. Except that in real life a friend or family member may know very little about trauma or PTSD, and their only honest response might be sympathy. And a friend that will 'just be there' for you regardless, is a great support (for a hug, a cup of tea, or just to sit with you etc). But on a help/advice forum, I don't think sympathy has much benefit.

I agree that blunt advise does sting, and our immediate reaction might be to lash out. But in honesty, when ever this has happened to me, once I've calmed down, I've been able to step back and see that the advice given was actually spot on. And of more long term benefit than someone else giving just sympathy/empathy.

 

[intothelight]

Here comes my .02 cents.

I think sympathy is an appropriate response to illness, injury, loss, or death. Those are life events that one does not have control over, and sympathy in its appropriate context is acceptable. However, to continue for any extended period beyond the event might encourage wallowing.

Empathy is creates a common ground, conveys understanding and establishes some credibility. Personally, it is easier for me to take advice from someone who has suffered insomnia and then shares what worked for them, than it would be to have a friend offer advise who really had never spent an extended period unable sleep. Unless of course the individual giving the advise has the credentials to offer it in lieu of personal experience. (OK trust issues.)

Approach really depends on the individual. But as long as a message is delivered with respect, kindness, and the best interest of the receiver at heart, that is the best we can do.

Deb

 

[Philippa]

I just received a newsletter from Feedblitz talking about how the word victim can actually bring healing to a person affected by abuse. It spoke about the way so many people in the self-help scene shun the victim label in preference for "survivor" and I have used this myself, thinking I was empowering myself.

I have spoken to women who were raped, multiple times, and they both said that it wasn't until they could admit they were a victim that they were able to feel the feelings they had been numbing out, and from there, they could really heal.

What are your thoughts about this? I know I am taking this thread in a slightly different direction, but I think it does tie into the notion of sympathy vs. Empathy in the healing process.

I think re-defining the word victim, so it is no longer associated with the stigma of blame and being "unnattractive" and disempowering might be a way of bringing reality to the person in need of healing. Before a person can call themselves a survivor, they need to admit that they have been a victim of someone elses cruelty or sadism, or ignorant lack of control of impulses that harm others.

I used to judge victims harshly before I had experienced sexual assault, or realized that the behavior in my own family was abuse brought on by a Narcisisstic father. I think it was an opinion I took on from other people in society, and I found it 'ugly', and still do on some level, but I am starting to wonder if I have had it wrong all this time, and that calling ones self a victim is actually closer to the reality of things and needn't be seen as such a terrible thing, but rather the reality. There is so much going on for the person affected by abuse that telling them ontop of that that they HAVE to take responsability and not be a victim sounds like blaming the victim, which isn't helpful since it is no ones fault that they fall victim to an abuser.

 

[BipolarBatesy]

As an abused child I learned to mimic sickness to gain sympathy & the only kind of affection available at that time.
It became a self defeating pattern in adulthood, evoking hostility in healthier personalities.
After years in group therapy I came to understand what Peter Levine means in his book "In an UnSpoken Voice" about the concept of 'positive feedback & negative outcomes, the rush to sympathize in groups can reward & maintain negative patterns & an individuals comfort zone.

Thanks for a wonderful thread:))

Batesy

 

[Brontie]

There is a very significant difference to sympathising with someone in person and sympathising with someone on a forum.

In my experience there are ‘talk about it because it helps’ forums and there are ‘working’ forums, this is a working forum. We are expected to read and learn and make use of that information. There’s no room for too much lamenting. I like this type and I have been on a few.

I think we seek a mixture of sympathy, suggestion, encouragement and support on forums. Speaking for myself, I fit into this media I think because I don’t want to burden my family who are all dealing in their own way and I don’t want to add to that.

Beside I would never be able to go into this much detail with them, like my thoughts, my feeling, my journey, my progress. I don’t think I would have made anywhere near this amount of progress if it hadn’t been for the internet and forums like this one. I even doubt whether I would have been around today if it wasn’t for all the support and encouragement I received. To say nothing of all the free advice.

So if we are talking about forums and if sympathising helps. I know it does.

In real life? Yes, sometimes just being there helps.

 

[Philippa]

Yes, I am starting to view the internet in a much more positive light than previous days past. Not that I don't see it as amazing...just that I was always a bit anti-computers I guess. I saw it as the devil at one stage, but it turns out it's been my savior in a way.

 

[anni]

The victim thing is probably subjective also, plus possibly depends on where one might be in the healing process? This is an artist speaking, not a professional in the field so hate to make sweeping statements for others when I'm not qualified for more than mere opinion. I know at the moment I dislike the word 'victim' for myself but during the court process it genuinely would have been a very validating thing to hear, and probably while trying to swallow the whole diagnosis thing. I WAS a victim, and yes, it wasn't until this was allowed in my head ( which didn't happen until others stopped pointing the finger back at me for running into someone's fist ) that the PTSD could be addressed properly. These days the word victim just gives me the willies and makes me feel helpless all over again. If I don't disallow this, or at least stick the 'was' as a prefix I do just feel there could be a slide backwards somewhere.

This is just me, however. People are so different I'd have to guess what 'works' might be equally different across the board.

 

[Philippa]

Thanks for your honest response here anni.