News Doctor-Assisted Death For Those Living With Ptsd

[ghotiff]

I think that those with the worst off quality of life due to PTSD are most likely those least likely to be able to make use of an assisted suicide service (particularly if you need money or to get past red tape).

 

[Deleted member 12723]

I think that is so messed up. It seems so very dangerous to vulnerable, naive people easily influenced. I sure do not like this at all.

 

[LuckyDuck]

Imagine being told that by a doctor. "You have PTSD. One option is to die." Uh, when are you going to give me hope?

LD

 

[scout86]

One option is to die.

When it comes right down to it, one option IS to die. I'm not saying it's the best option, or a good option, but it's an option. People die every day as a consequence of having PTSD.

Does anyone think there's a time when giving up really IS the most reasonable thing to do? (Setting aside the valid concerns for how people can be manipulated and this could be spun in a bad way.)

 

[LuckyDuck]

When it comes right down to it, one option IS to die. I'm not saying it's the best option, or a good opt...

It's about as close as Go kill yourself as you will get in the medical community. Being told that from the doc is the WTF moment.

I'd say rock bottom depends on the person. I hit pretty low in my day and know that it's much much deeper. And as far as I can tell, the level I deal with daily isn't enough. Reasonable is very personal and probably will never get a concrete answer, if at all. Because it depends on the person. My guess is it won't pass what the NS woman is wanting because every case is different.

My best at your question would be a few other questions. Would you rather have a doctor help you out so you go out quickly, quietly and supported, or would you rather do it alone with a higher chance of failing and/or being maimed/brain damaged/disfigured/die slowly and painfully for several hours, if not days/comatose?

Would you rather go through a process of therapy beforehand to make sure you do indeed meet the criteria for a doctor to assist which might just be the turnaround you need, while being open and honest to at least one other person, or would you want to stay in silence suffering in your own mind and spring the act on unsuspecting people who most likely will have to find your corpse and they themselves traumatized?

It's a much different process for those who are wanting doctor assisted deaths than just dying.

LD

 

[scout86]

Because it depends on the person.

Very true!

It's about as close as Go kill yourself as you will get in the medical community.

OR, it's a "Wake up this is serious you idiot!" moment. Like you said, it depends on the person. I have a tendency to minimize stuff. There's been a time or 2 when it was actually useful to hear, "Hey, you could DIE if you keep doing what you're doing." So, depending on the person, I can see where it might be useful to point out to someone that PTSD is potentially fatal.

Would you rather have a doctor help you out so you go out quickly, quietly and supported

Me personally? I think I'm more a do it yourself type of person. But I can easily see where this option would be the preference for some people and I think it's at least worth considering if it should be available.

Would you rather go through a process of therapy beforehand to make sure you do indeed meet the criteria for a doctor to assist

I can see where, sometimes, that might actually get a person in to therapy who hadn't considered it, or tried it, and it might really save lives in the end. So maybe the option has some possibilities? (Which was my original point.)

 

[Tinyflame]

I don't think much good will come out of it, but most Canadians want it. But there are several sides: many fear end of life; many pre-suppose suffering, immobility & dependence; many are actually unaware of what/ how that unfolds (lots of us are walking around with cancer as we speak & unaware, eg,, the treatments are another thing); there are lack of resources, I also agree it's about money too. It's not restricted to terminality, it doesn't require the same kind of burden of proof of 'all' therapies attempted as much as burden of proof of existence & impact (negatively) on life, & that condition is irremedial. (Even 40% of depression is considered treatment-resistant). Conditions like Multiple Sclerosis eg don't affect expected life span, etc.

The problem also is though, suggestions otherwise are often ill-informed- what 'should' be available in terms of resources (not what is, totally clueless there, often, or how the 'system' works- especially for those without wealth/ 'pull'); recommendations from faith-based perspectives many don't share; and mostly no understanding of what it actually truly does mean or feel like- what life is like, for those who don't have the resources others have (financial, family, etc).- much easier to say one 'should do (or not do) this or that', when the person saying it does not live it . I have found many doctors specifically in favor of it for depression/ (ptsd), because when the impact is expressed concretely they are horrified by even small factors. (eg if you go to a Dr here and tell them you are not having sex they will give you an anti-depressant whether you want it or not. They view it as quality of life.) Many even here say without their kids eg etc they'd not know what to do. Most people are saying it should be their own decision. But yes, ptsd often ends in suicide or attempted for a reason, and that's not always regretted, & it's irremidial.

 

[anthony]

Being told that from the doc is the WTF moment.

Exactly. Degenerative diseases, which PTSD is not, get progressively worse. PTSD, when treated, historically gets better for the person, not worse.

I doubt very much that anyone who had tried all treatment options, and done the hard work, would be worse after such treatment option exposure.

 

[Tinyflame]

Yes you see their wording is quite broad. (Bearing in mind I'm no authority, just take it with a grain of salt), it's my understanding that when they originally asked Canadians if they were in favor, it was under the guise or inferred expectation that it was for terminal illness as most would categorize it, and over 80% were in favor. They have since re-named it from Physician assisted suicide to Physician assisted death. The Supreme Court of Canada overturned the ban on it in unanimously (9 judges) in February, & this is how they opened their decision in creating a new constitutional right over one's death in some circumstances, that 'for those who are severely and irremediably suffering, whether physically or psychologically':

.. “may be condemned to a life of severe and intolerable suffering” by the government’s absolute ban on assisted dying. “A person facing this prospect has two options: she can take her own life prematurely, often by violent or dangerous means, or she can suffer until she dies from natural causes. The choice is cruel.”

They dismissed the notion that competent adults cannot consent to their death: “We do not agree that the existential formulation of the right to life requires an absolute prohibition on assistance in dying, or that individuals cannot ‘waive’ their right to life. This would create a ‘duty to live,’” the ruling says.

I think the most unhelpful part, is that for people who focus on this as the solution, any other means to heal or manage are more likely to fall to the wayside.

Part of the trouble with palliative/ critical illness however, is that there are 2-3 year waiting lists for hospice care, & those who care for the elderly, ill & dying are paid (here) from $13- $20- ish dollars/ hour, with demanding physical work & long shifts, whereas a starting wage for a nurse is round $33/ hour. Nursing staff, for the most part, aside from a hospital environment are not the primary care givers. So much of the reality of the assistance falls on the family, but for those without they are SOL. Those in emotional pain or with little or no support I believe are the most likely.

I also feel, just for anyone, whatever the struggle, trying to take it more than day by day is nearly impossible, in terms of coping with the emotional burden, uncertainty, fear etc. JMHO though.

They have until June to define it, but a person can challenge it now through the courts. One person (terminally ill) was awarded it here today.

 

[Tinyflame]

ETA, 'for those who are severely and irremediably suffering, whether physically or psychologically.. a life of severe and intolerable suffering', I believe are the grounds this woman is referring to as applying. Because no where does it mention 'without reprieve', or the like. (Because even with terminal illness there is reprieve, sometimes even remissions.)

I think whether one agrees or not, we hear some of the same arguments on the forum: that ptsd is an 'invisible' illness but an illness nonetheless, & why should there be stigma? That (at least for now) there is no cure, but management; that (atypical or otherwise) depression frequently co-occurs; that it is pervasive through all areas of life, having an impact mentally, physically, spiritually & inter-relationally; that someone with ptsd can experience great impairment or distress in the ability to work (afford themself an income), interpersonally, being unable to develop or maintain relationships or have a family, even be unable to take care of tasks of daily living. Etc. (Not that everyone with ptsd is affected this way, but rather on a continuum/ individually). Then add in as @Thematrix said, therapy being out of the financial reach of many out here, which the health care system is in no rush to change.

I think the difference however with the forum is it advocates what can be done for one's self, versus focusing on losses, or giving up.

// (End of rant. :notworthy: )

 

[Neverthesame]

Oh God what a thing.

I don't honestly know, what I think, or don't. I'm not afraid of the backlash of agreeing or not. It's just a damn difficult question.

How does one really know?
I've had days, no. Years, where I was convinced that death was the only way out.

I've also had years where despite everything, the last thing I wanted was to die.

Such a huge decision, and not one that just affects you.

I just don't know.

 

[Ed Norton]

Ok, that is madness!

And one of the scariest things I've read.