Does Alcohol Always Mean Lack Of Consent?

[Sikese]

With a married (but separated) couple - one inebriated after 2 bottles of wine and the other completely sober?

Because one was drunk and sex occurs, does that automatically mean sexual assault?

Or do I need to share more information?

I have had drunken regrettable sex and more "black and white" drunken/sober rapes, but a recent experience is leaving me umm ...confused and a multitude of other emotions I am trying to avoid. T says it was sexual assault, but I do not want to believe her.

I know this question gets tossed around a lot, but I would appreciate your help. Thank you in advance.

 

[Uvon]

I don't think alcohol always does mean lack of consent, depending on how much alcohol and whether consent was actually sought and given.

 

[Olipe]

Depends on the circumstances. Not even remotely that black and white

 

[Oki]

Also the dynamics of power and control.

 

[Sikese]

I agree with you all.

I can explain why I ask:
Sparing you all a detailed narrative - consent was not given or denied, nor was it sought by him. I ha...[/QUOTE]

 

[Isok]

Well that didn't work! Lol

OP here!

I agree with you all.

I can explain why I ask:
Sparing you all a detailed narrative - consent was not given or denied, nor was it sought by him. I had stumbled around and fallen prior (he ridiculed and left me), and passed out a few times during. He says I initiated, but I only remember kissing him and pieces of the rest. He did things we do not normally do. He has since claimed he did not know I was that drunk and said "it felt like you wanted it."

I had told him prior to drinking that I wanted to be left alone (just in general) and lose my mind for a while after a rough day. I told him I wanted a safe place to do so.

My issue I wanted to discuss with T was just the feeling of disrespect and disappointment in his lack of his ability to say "Hey, no, you're too drunk" and/or leave me alone/put me to bed even if I initiated as he says I did. I definitely felt hurt and betrayed, but not assaulted. How was he to know if I didn't explicitly say "No" (even if he knows I have issues surrounding that, but it is still my responsibility)

T says I was not able to give consent either way. I was intoxicated. She says he took advantage, and that no background information or details are needed in order to say that yes, this was sexual assault.

I don't know. I don't see it so clearly.

 

[Asapo]

It sounds like you have a smart t. I think it's hard to see it like that when you have a relationship with someone either marriage or dating, because it's harder to be objective. If one person is drunk and another is sober then it is an uneven power thing. My SO has refused to have sex with me in this situation.

 

[Jabis]

Maybe it matters what those labels mean to you. You're not going to try to prosecute him, right? Because I think that's the main place a question of whether or not something rises to meet the definition of assault matters.

From a relationship standpoint, it seems like the main thing that matters is that he's not a person who's concerned enough about you feel to check and make sure you're really a willing participant. Is that ok with you?

 

[Uravit]

This:

passed out a few times during.

certainly makes me feel uncomfortable and I definitely have a question mark around his intentions and actions.

If one person is sober and fully present and the other person is drunk and passing out during sex,I really believe that the sober, conscious person should stop. Whether the drunk person consented, didn't say yes or no, initiated or whatever is irrelevant in that situation in my view. Someone who has passed out is not engaging, is not participating, is not consenting in that moment.

I don't buy the idea that a sober, conscious person wouldn't realise that the person they are having sex with is no longer conscious.

So, for me, regardless of the other contextual stuff you've described, the fact that he chose to continue when you had passed out...he shouldn't have done that. And I'm sorry that happened. I think it's understandable that you feel hurt and betrayed and also that you feel confused about this. I'm glad that you have a good therapist to work this through with.

 

[Cujusur]

So it is fair to say my t is wrong when she says if one party has alcohol and the other does not, it is assault? It is not that clear-cut.

But she is right in that I was in my situation, too intoxicated to consent?

T has some unique reporting requirements due to our affiliations, so the sexual assault label matters more than I want it to.

And no, that is not okay with me, but I'm not ready to label him a rapist. But I do think he's not as oblivious as he pretends to be.

I just want to be sure I'm not either being overly sensitive or overly dismissive of reality. I'm still working through my other assaults so this kind of messes me up. I can hardly look at him.

It was my responsibility to make it clear it was unwanted and stop. It was also my responsibility not to become that intoxicated.

-op

 

[Pinij]

the fact that he chose to continue when you had passed out...he shouldn't have done that. And I'm sorry that happened. I think it's understandable that you feel hurt and betrayed and also that you feel confused about this.

Thank you for the support. I don't see how he didn't know either. And his lack of care for my feelings later when I spelled it out to him was telling. In fact, he left the conversation with: "I'm hungry. You can keep talking but I need to eat." No understanding, no apology, just defenses and he's hungry.

I just feel hurt. Ugh.

 

[Eha]

T has some unique reporting requirements due to our affiliations, so the sexual assault label matters more than I want it to.

If that's the concern, it's going to depend on the legal definition where the event took place. If there are things your T is required to report, they should have the parameters in writing. I think I'd refer to that. In fact, I think you HAVE to refer to that, if you're discussing legalities.

It was my responsibility to make it clear it was unwanted and stop. It was also my responsibility not to become that intoxicated.

True, but I'd say that's MORE true if you're dealing with someone you don't know well. One would like to think they could trust their SO to have their welfare in mind in a situation like that. Personally, not being able to count on someone to reliably have my back, disqualifies them for the role of SO.