News Does America Need A Civil Revolution?

[Vee Lagrome]

Complete sidenote: What you said Anni makes me think of my grandfather. Retired police officer who was part of a union for eons and actually did a good bit of recruiting for the unions. He said he made so much more money than the non-union workers and he just didn't get why they wouldn't join up. He'd say how they'd cuss him out for being a "union pig" but then they'd also complain about not having enough money for this or that. It left him scratching his head. To this day, he gets health insurance and a pension from all of his years as a union employee, doesn't need social security or medicaid. He calls himself a "well-fed communist" Lol. He still has those puzzling old man ideas, like that only gay men get AIDS, and that black people have this unique gene that makes them rob liquor stores or something (don't tell him that white people also rob liquor stores, it would just confuse him) and despite being a registered Democrat, will not support a female politician because "it's just not right". *facepalm*

I think the younger generations don't really "get" unions, but I think they also tend to shy away form being clung to a political party. I'm not entirely sure about Gen X's kids, they seem to be easily bought off. Ah well, I'm sure Gen Y's kids will make up for it. :roflmao:

 

[anni]

Hee- oh he sounds exactly like my grandfather!!!! When my parents sent us to visit the grandparents ( Amtrack from PA to Orlando, where they retired like every other person over 65 in those days ) they had to do a great deal of deprogramming when we got home, I can tell you! The THINGS my grandfather would tell us!!!!He was retired union, railroad. Exactly like yours did-then sent us back to my liberal, progressive parents to deprogram. Hysterical to think about now. We also had to have our heads pretty well shaved to remove the home perms Grandmom gave us but that's a non-political story. :) The unions did get entirely out of control, unfortunately, demanding unspeakable wages for incredibly specific job specs then not budging on them when the steel industry ( for instance ) got into trouble. It was 50% the unions fault the industry went under, not playing ball there-they'd rather see the thing crash than bargain reasonably. No balance anywhere,you know?

The gen kids, I don't know. I can only hope they recognize they need to be cohesive and stay that way. The way it's set up for them now, with the dam banks owning them with the school loans for most of their adult lives ( which can't be an accident )has to have sunk in somewhere, plus the abysmal state of the planet, plus the abysmal view of the US held by the rest of the world community.ARE they out there? I watch MTV and see the icons presented to these young people-have you SEEN 'Jersey Shore'? Like watching a spray-tanned train wreck of a generation.

 

[Deleted member 487]

Does America need a Civil Revolution? Hmmm.

I have to say yes. We're not supposed to be a dictatorship like it is, nor is it supposed to be a democracy. As Ben Franklin said "It's a republic, if you can keep it."

As for the Middle East, I am truly sorry for them. But they wouldn't be there if the US kept it's nose out of their personal politics.

 

[Trinomial]

The US is the example to the world on how not to have a political structure.

So, does the US need its civilians to march against its own political organisation demanding change, a civil revolt?

Absolutely. The three branches of the government were designed and endorsed by Federalists, who wanted to keep elected office in the hands of aristocrats (all the while, creating the illusion that people have a say in what the government does). Essentially, the same people who called Great Britain's rule "tyranny" became the tyrants.

Localists wanted self-governing communities and Federalists wanted profits.

It was evident early on that the government could not keep itself in check. In the late 1700's, the Treaty of Hopewell was signed by the U.S. government and the Cherokee Nation. The Cherokee chose to become Americanized and show that they could live as the citizens of the U.S. did and co-exist peacefully. They had schools, churches, cash crops, written language, a police force, a/ court system, a constitution, and they lived in nicer homes than many U.S. citizen did at the time.

In 1828, Andrew Jackson became the president of the U.S. Around this same time, gold was discovered on Cherokee territory. Jackson lobbied to have them removed from their land and displaced to the West. Georgia declared that the Cherokee had to abide by their laws. It was taken to supreme court in Worcester vs Georgia, and the supreme justice ruled that the Cherokee were not to be governed by GA's laws. Jackson supposedly said, "John Marshall has made his decision; now let him enforce it."

In other words, Jackson had an army, and he was going to use it. Marshall was just a judge. The Indian Removal Act was introduced in 1830. Nearly half of Congress disproved, but majority passed the bill, and a lot of Cherokee died as a result of being rounded up and stored in camps during the summer in Georgia, and many more died along the "trail of tears".

I digress.

I think we need a government of individuals with real life experience--not these lawyers and career politicians who have lost touch with reality...and certainly no one should be in office who is willing to do favors for a price. No more lobbyists, no more bullying, no more terrorizing third world countries. We need people in office who actually care about the welfare of those who put their trust in them.

 

[femaleveteran]

it is weird as i stumbled across this post looking to donate a little cash to keep the forum up and running and I realized that this is one of the many reasons why i like this forum (as well as the combat one too). I keep coming across cool topics that sort of help me forget that I have PTSD for a while.

America definitely needs a civil revolution. Will it change things? I like to optimistically believe that it would. However America can be as heavy handed with its citizens as any dictatorship you might have recently seen dealing with their citizens during the American named "Arab Spring". Everything in the USA is a marketing tool. Even those little magnetic yellow ribbons you see everyone putting on their cars around this whole country. Pretty soon they will come up with another cool ribbon color and you will see those same shaped ribbons with an "I support the Arab Spring" slogan prionted in cursive right on them.

Driving to Boston last year I saw one vehicle that must have had about 10 of those yellowed ribbons, in various states of weathered decay, on the back bumper of its nice Gas-Guzzling Humvee. I told people when I got home finally from Iraq that if they really wanted to "support the troops" then they would stop buying that kind of crap. None of the money these shysters (sic) and marketing men-women are making selling those types of "I SUPPORT THE WAR YEE HAWWWW" things goes to a single soldier serving in a combat zone. So the best way to put a stop to a war it would seeem is to stop making war a fashion statement or worse yet what they have done with the whole "support the troops" is make it into some type of dodgy cliche. I'm just sayin'....

In my opinon it is not a revolution that is needed but a civil resolution with results not from blood in the streets but, rather, changes in the way we look upon material things, being self-reliant and taking care of ourselves and our people along with the way we percive the state of the rest of the world. We need to teach our children the truth and that is that this is indeed not a democracy but is instead a capitalist republic, striving for the total good of a few chosen ones on the idea that the "good" created will trickle down in some diluted, but presumably still "good" form. I have yet to see that happen in my 39 years. Homelessness is at an all time high. Unemployment is at an all time high at least for MY lifetime as I did not grow up in the Midwestern Dustbowl of the late-20's early 1930's which basically began the Great Depresssion. We have also been at war for longer than any other period in our history, and to what end? Again, I do not mean to be an idiot but I am just askin'....

You want a revolution in the USA. However many of those I hear calling for it are from outside the USA and that is what I personally find most interesting. It tells me that at some point probably over the last few decades we have definitely overstepped our boundaries in many areas of foriegn affairs, much to the chagrin of the rest of the world. And in other areas we have failed miserably to support the endeavors and needs of all those who have truly supported the USA in our....ahhhhh...how to put this delicately......."frustrating" war on terror....a global makleting scheme in and of itself with "Infidel" T-shirts, fake Iraqi Campaign medals you can buy off the internet and "Wanted Dead or Alive" Posters of Osama Bin Laden selling like hotcakes on many internet sites especially now that he is actually dead....I am sorry and again I am not meaning to be dense but that is just stupid to spend money on anything like that. I hated the guy myself but i am not about to wear a T-shirt now, OR even before he was dead, that makes such a statement.

Just do not buy the crap that glorifies any person who is a war junkie or any nation who has such a passion as ours does for World Domination. Ever since I was in school all I heard was that we were a world power. No damn Yellow Ribbon stuck on the back of anyone's vehicle ever did a thing to help me out of ethical delimmas and traumatic events and the just plain sheer hell of being a medical officer in a war zone. Being there with an American falg on my shoulder made me one thing, and that was hated.

You say you want a revolution then stop borrowing money you cannot pay back to continue buying this uselss crap (like magnetic yellow ribbons for your rear bumper) which only makes someone else some short time money until the next scheme, or war, comes along.
I think if most Americans would learn to think outside of their own box (heads) and use their minds for what god intended then they would be able to breathe a bit more deeply, think a bit more clearly, and perhaps govern THEMSELVES a little more compassionately....and only then can any of us truly start thinking about helping anyone else in the world. Until we are ready to think before we react then we will always be seen as a nation of impulsive gunslingers who continually thirst for blood, are rude, oftentimes more paranoid than anything else, and many of those who appear different to us believe that we are the people who have no care for anything or anyone who might even appear a bit strange. I am sorry and though I do believe in a revolution, I also think that until we get our collective conscience on a path of correction that this revolution will be a long way off

...what Americans need to do is resolve to get to the point where the revolution is not co-opted by a Manhattan Marketing firm, there cannot be a reality show made of it and, for god sake, save some of your cars nice paint job and do not put any more of those ribbons on anything. Because if this Resolution/Revolution, becomes just another cause off of which to make a buck or two then what is the point of even talking seriously about it in the first place? When I went to Boston I saw the Minuteman statue at Lexington and Concord and I looked up at the statue and I told my cousin that I thought that guy was more of a hero because at least he was fighting for an ideal, a real country, a real homeland to call his own......I also said that I was no hero at all because all i was fighting for was a cool slogan.

Plus,I doubt that the American revolutionaries beat the British Empire just because some great Ad-Man from Park Avenue, NYC made a cool t-shirt and made some money for him.....no they fought and won because they believed in something and when you believe in something you do not need to emblazon it on everything you own. Endorsements are for atheletes so they can have extra bail money...endorsements do not belong in the realm of reforming governments and building true egalitarian societies.. But until we find a way to get rid of that innner desire that many here in the USA have to be greedy (all of those afflicted being fed by those useless, hard-to-come-by promises of the American Dream) and find the "next hot thing" then we will never be the type of people ABLE to truly revolutionize our own civil life or our government. We need to build our nation and take care of our people before we can be seen as any kind of a compassionate soul to the rest of the world.

Until we do those things, we will continue to be a laughing stock to most of those deeper and more inquisitive minds of the world.

 

[anni]

I've tried and failed in the past to put these exact sentiments into words which convey them appropriately. Thanks for taking the time to speak for those of us who haven't managed to quite GET it on paper. This was quite wonderful, and I'm standing, trying to acheive one of those ear splitting whistles while clapping at the same time.

 

[femaleveteran]

anni wrote:

Yes, I'm a gun owner but sure as heck do not wave that clause idiotic argument.

i am sorry as I did not get through reading all the posts last night before writing my own but I just read this one you wrote previously and I love that line. I try to explain to people here that I too am a gun owner and I could give a crap about the NRA or the "Constitutional" Right to Bear Arms -- though I would like someone in the "know to tell me if that constitutional right gives me the right to bear ...say....a.nuclear warhead? Valid Question in my opinion...

Anyway, I am a gun owner (and a democrat in case you feel a bit lonely anni) out of necessity. I am a gun owner because EVERYONE, including the 66 year old woman who lives in the house in front of me, owns at least one firearm and with all these armed people roaming around in a town of only 220, I am not about to be the only one without means to defend myself Even when I went to the VA and they evaluated me over about an hour long period for PTSD, they asked me if I had a firearm at home and I said "What?? Are you joking?? I live in West Virginia, of course I own a firearm."

.....so, if I am understanding your statements in that previous post correctly then you're absolutely right. In the USA today, frankly one may as well forget the constitutional issue, as gun ownership is a necessity, in my opinion as i said, or you risk leaving yourself quite vulnerable...whether it is being vulnerable to those groups of armed militia camped up in the mountains doing weekend "maneuvers" (WTF??) or the occassional drunken redneck who just goes around looking for a fight.....of course, some of what i think is a strong case for necessity could also be my previously mentioned PTSD talking there........

 

[anni]

Hahahaha! I KNOW I should not exactly laugh, of course, but what does one do? Quite seriously, as I write this, do you know what woke me up this morning again? There's a kook group who owns legal automatics, They're identifiable when they drive by our house on the way up to their camp by the confererate flags enblazoned on their Lincolns. They all like to get together and practice, I guess for the inevitable infiltration of all the barefoot, unarmed Mexican immigrants when they get as far as Pennsylvania and start perhaps showing folks around here how to work escape persecution, poverty and drug lords in their home country. Noone's standing for that- wait for it! Anyway, the thumpthumpthumpthump of automatic weaponry vies with birdsong and babbling brook on weekend mornings- poetic, isn't it? I do think folks in other countries do not quite understand the deep devisness here, nor the almost primitive mindset of many. All those Westerns, movies, books and legends really kind of did us a huge disservice. They're dandy entertainment but geesh- NOW I have to go clean my dam gun every week because the 68 year old grandmother, the gang members who live 25 miles away, the kook groups over the hill and someone's 12 year old are all walking around excercizing their constitutional right to claim thier right to blow holy hell out of each at whatever provacation. Should anyone take away that 'right', sure- the nice, gommers amongst us would hand in the old .22 but good grief- this leaves only the ill-disposed armed and happily trigger-happy. That's not paranoid, it's America.

When we travel to Maine every year, we have to NOT carry our little pistol through Massachusets. To do so and to get 'caught' would result in whatever legal recourse Teddy had decided would be sufficient to keep his state safe. It was admirable, of course, the attempt to free Mass. from this hysterical grip.Noone can tell me the armed there are not pretty smug about the state of affairs, as must be the dam ground hogs. I AM sorry Teddy is gone, having been a single voice of reason throughout the Dubya madness but that move just further polarized those opposed to reason itself, you know?

Hee- sorry so long, you just sort of set me off. I have a friend who has deep roots in this area. She told me recently that her family reunion has been cancelled permanantly due to the tendency for the whole thing to devolve into everyone being all too happy to sport pistols during the traditional poker game on the last evening of the event. Also Appalachia here. OH my, still crying- I know it's dreadful to laugh but the ' I live in West Virginia, of course I own a firearm' just set me off'.

 

[femaleveteran]

LOL, yeah well, Appalachia, in general, is certainly a unique life experience. I do love it here though, the mountains, the wildlife, the community I live in. I just do not want to always feel a need to view those things i love as potential areas of danger.

 

[anni]

Yes, the deep traditions 'get me' as does the sheer history, the old, traditional sense of community lacking in suburbia. I kind of have genetic roots throughout the PA Appalachians, know where the glaciers ended, where the first Anthracite mine was picked in the side of the mountain, spent my childhood dragging home grubby fern fossils to drive my mother insane, even was made privvy to stills this far north as a child in the woods ( we had them too, who knew?). Graves with familiar DNA dot these mountains- I love it, even the names like 'Schuylkill', where Dad's family was from for a couple hundred years, left to fight the wars, some didn't come back. The mindless refusal to take down those flags makes things tough to defend, as does that camp up the road where the mind set really is that automatic weaponry was discussed and approved en mass by George, John Adams and the boys, but boy, it's completely lovely here.

 

[Deleted member 487]

You know what gets me to think we need a civil war?
When cops can beat up handicapped people and get away with it. Last Sunday morning I saw a video that sickened me. A man in a powered wheelchair was grabbed by two cops while he was flailing around and face slammed into the pavement. His face was a bloody mess. What possibly could he have done to deserve that? They claimed assaulting an officer.
Well, it turned out that he is an advocate for the homeless, protesting for homeless people and their rights. Turned out the cops stopped him, and maced him, which caused him to flail, before grabbing him and face slamming him to the pavement. And it also turns out the man also has muscular dystrophy.

So we have these two fine examples of American Law Enforcement, able-bodied and in very good physical shape, that are too scared of a man in an electric wheel chair. Yep. that man he's gunna run dem piggies over, he is! Ohhh yeah! I betcha he's poppin' wheelies and spinnin' brodies in the parking lot with that ultra high speed super duper electric wheel chair.

That is why we need a civil war. Too many pigs are like those two.

Then to find out this week that the Supreme Court made warrantless searches legal. WTF? You got it. Now a pig can bust your door down, blow your brains out and when no drugs are founds, call it a mere accident. Sorry Barney Fife, but your swastika is upside down.THAT is why we need a war. We have a lot of human trash here that needs to be taken to the dump.

 

[anni]

It is indeed dreadful to see things like this, but be sure it has raised the same outrage across the nation. Abuse of power is sickening and certainly there would be some who would be attracted to the inherent power in the position of police officer merely because they themselves have some mentally ill need to abuse others. It isn't singular to that field- one sees pedophiles attempting to get into any field which will allow them access to children, for instance. I have a dear friend who was certainly the victim of police brutality. She is now standing up for her rights as a citizen and human being on the planet against these swine and I hope the officers involved are removed from 'service'. Those officers were certainly attracted to that place, that job and circumstances because of reasons other than service, or a wish for a career helping others, using their gifts and talents for societal good- whatever it is which calls most law enforcement to their chosen careers. You know it's not the money.

It seems a tough thing in my opinion to call for civil revolution on the grounds that a hideous abuse of power occured to this poor man. Yes, of course this sort of thing must be disallowed entirely, of course stopped. It seems the implication is that police across the board would be painted with the same brush, which is too far off base to really be able to address properly. There's a reason for the term 'The Thin Blue Line', which is that really- TRULY, the police are genuinely all that stands between us, the little guy, going about our normal, nice little lives, and complete and utter chaos. Faults in the system, certainly. That is inarguable, but the faults do not lie in the majority of these public servants without whom we could go about our nice, normal little lives.

I'm not a fan of warrentless searches, but I didn't see where it was further allowed that anyone was going to be given the authority to blow anyone's brains out. Could have missed that part, though.