Sufferer Domestic violence survivor

[João]

No one cares about being ethical. They care about protecting the intuitions. Schools protect the institution. They teach about abuse in what they all a ‘child friendly’ way, but they have a duty to protect all children, including those whose behaviours need correcting. So they close their doors to feedback and change. And the teachers job is to protect the school as an institution, so they teach/ train children and parents to be silenced, rather than improve what they have, even just a little bit.

The institution mindset starts in school, and that institution mindset is carried into every organisation, hierarchy, patriarchy, institution, culture and faith. No one cares nor can anyone change it and if they try to fight it, they’ll get hurt.

We can only become resilient in the face of it. Wishing you resilience and peace.

Do not fight. Do not struggle.

Be mindful and live at arms length from it. And teach your kin to be as resilient to with stand it too.

I do not completely agree with you. If no one cared about being ethical we would already be living over the 3rd world war (maybe the 4th or 5th WW). If there were no ethics, gender equality would not be assumed and women would not start being treated as equal as to man. There are people that are ethical. This is not any jungle. Otherwise, the human race would be already extinct. We need to rely on the evolution of ethics and fight for ethics all over the world. There are some countries that are more advanced in ethics than others but everyone is trying to move forward and evolve. Without ethics there is no evolution of the human being, trust me. We can be resilient but we need to keep fighting for our rights and should start in the school and institutions. I am hopeful that one day children will have access to ethics by choice and not by oppression, because oppression only generates more oppression.

 

[Evie loves Sam]

I do not completely agree with you. If no one cared about being ethical we would already be living over the 3rd world war (maybe the 4th or 5th WW). If there were no ethics, gender equality would not be assumed and women would not start being treated as equal as to man. There are people that are ethical. This is not any jungle. Otherwise, the human race would be already extinct. We need to rely on the evolution of ethics and fight for ethics all over the world. There are some countries that are more advanced in ethics than others but everyone is trying to move forward and evolve. Without ethics there is no evolution of the human being, trust me. We can be resilient but we need to keep fighting for our rights and should start in the school and institutions. I am hopeful that one day children will have access to ethics by choice and not by oppression, because oppression only generates more oppression.

We don’t have gender equality. Not in any developed world.

A lack of ethics doesn't always result in world wars. It results in a society that is self serving and blindly protecting the institutions.

Wars begin by the abuse of an institution or individual funded by the institution that oppresses.

It use to take a village to raise a child. And so it should. A community coming from a variety of places to teach morality and values and trades. In the developed world, you send a child all day behind a gate to come home trying and there is nothing you can do, Those doors are closed to parents. Should you raise a concern about school you will be vilified and ‘labelled’ psychologically - helicopter, unhinged, projecting etc

Developed worlds are not equal rights for women. Far from it. Women still take on the caring roles and suffer a deficient for it.

The war we face right now is a psychological one of oppression, control, dysfunction and the intuition. It is a war of labels and trauma. It’s a war of image and imagined morality. We live in a society that enables the systematic and repeated re/traumatisation of people and we continue to fund the institutions that thrive off oppression.

The war now is how to untrauatise a traumatised society.

I am silenced, I am oppressed, and I am traumatised.

 

[João]

We don’t have gender equality. Not in any developed world.

A lack of ethics doesn't always result in world wars. It results in a society that is self serving and blindly protecting the institutions.

Wars begin by the abuse of an institution or individual funded by the institution that oppresses.

It use to take a village to raise a child. And so it should. A community coming from a variety of places to teach morality and values and trades. In the developed world, you send a child all day behind a gate to come home trying and there is nothing you can do, Those doors are closed to parents. Should you raise a concern about school you will be vilified and ‘labelled’ psychologically - helicopter, unhinged, projecting etc

Developed worlds are not equal rights for women. Far from it. Women still take on the caring roles and suffer a deficient for it.

The war we face right now is a psychological one of oppression, control, dysfunction and the intuition. It is a war of labels and trauma. It’s a war of image and imagined morality. We live in a society that enables the systematic and repeated re/traumatisation of people and we continue to fund the institutions that thrive off oppression.

The war now is how to untrauatise a traumatised society.

I am silenced, I am oppressed, and I am traumatised.

All you talked about belongs to ethics and it always existed. That war you talk about is being battled for centuries and is a battle of discovery of the ethical side of socialization in the human being. The root of the evil comes from the relationship between the creditor and the debtor in which the creditor have power to punish the debtor in the way he wants. That may be applied in any hierarchical and parental perspective in which the superior/parent may abuse from their inferior/relative. I recommend you to read Nietzsche to get more informed about this field. It's an old issue (come from before the XIX century) and it needs constant attention in order to improve.

It is impossible to untraumatize the people. Once one is traumatized, it is for life. What really is required is psychological treatment of the people, which is what I suppose you mean.

I don't think that I agree with the intuition part. That part usually does not have any scientific/ philosophical basis, so I don't know up to what point it can be considered in play.

If you think that lack of ethics doesn't result in wars, then look at Iran, Syria, Palestine, Ukraine and Russia. There, surely there are everything that you said.

 

[Evie loves Sam]

All you talked about belongs to ethics and it always existed. That war you talk about is being battled for centuries and is a battle of discovery of the ethical side of socialization in the human being. The root of the evil comes from the relationship between the creditor and the debtor in which the creditor have power to punish the debtor in the way he wants. That may be applied in any hierarchical and parental perspective in which the superior/parent may abuse from their inferior/relative. I recommend you to read Nietzsche to get more informed about this field. It's an old issue (come from before the XIX century) and it needs constant attention in order to improve.

It is impossible to untraumatize the people. Once one is traumatized, it is for life. What really is required is psychological treatment of the people, which is what I suppose you mean.

I don't think that I agree with the intuition part. That part usually does not have any scientific/ philosophical basis, so I don't know up to what point it can be considered in play.

If you think that lack of ethics doesn't result in wars, then look at Iran, Syria, Palestine, Ukraine and Russia. There, surely there are everything that you said.

I like talking to you about intellectual things. I hope you do too.

Ethics can be claimed on any side of a war and arguments for each sided claims ethics or entitlement to land and resources. Both sides state they are treated unfairly or unethically. Thus, the war in those countries continues and is never resolved.

The wars that exist in those countries are from generations being taught to carry the trauma of their parents. They teach the children to carry that trauma, to fight for their cause and to feel entitled to the land or resources that are under dispute and sadly to hate the other side for the trauma their relatives have experienced. The cycle continues. That is abuse, dysfunction and the repeated traumatisation of our fellow humans. That is not ethics. That is trauma and entitlement being passed to generations.

Ethics are about a rule of conduct. How to behave as determined by a society that they live in. A boxing match can be performed ethically with rules of expected behaviour - it’s still a fist fight at the end of the day, ethics applied or not.

Each society in the wars you mention have their own cultures, bias and behaviours they consider ‘appropriate’. None of which place any responsibility on themselves to behave ethically to the other side.

If there was better appreciation of the inter generational trauma suffered by both sides in the countries mentioned, then they would have a better understanding of each others suffering and seek a trauma informed way of engaging with each other to mediate conflict, rather than causing more harm for the next generation,

Wars are never pretty or just. They never will be. Wars should not exist in this day and age at all.

Sadly, Diplomacy fails time and time again, ethical and moral debates fail. But each side appreciating the trauma of the other may stop it being passed to the next generation so that they may sit at the table of reconciliation and find a way forward peacefully.

If we all believed we could not be untraumatised, we would not seek healing through therapy. We can become self aware, we can become aware of others, we can sit peacefully with our triggers (sometimes and more and more when we find our flow) and we can fight negative self talk. We have to believe in ourselves though - perhaps the biggest barrier to overcoming is beliefs.

It’s not the trauma that matters, it’s the wound it left behind that needs healing. No, we can’t un/experience what we have, we can’t un-see what we have, but we are all here trying to heal that wound.

No one’s tried my approach. Because humans are behaviourally, are creatures of habit and are likely to repeat the same mistakes and apply the same solutions to them - we repeat the cycle remotely consciously. British diplomacy failed in these countries, American diplomacy failed as well. And suffering continues.

I have read nitzchie and his misunderstanding of faith and desire to abolish the idea of God. God represented a very large burden for him and he places much burden on god.

I have faith.

I have read Marcus Arielius, Sellers, Aristotle, everything Stoicsm, Kent. I’ve read modern philosophy - Simon de buviour, Nussbaum, Nagel to name a few.

Philosophy will not stop wars, although it seems to try to understand it which is a good place to start as any.

What is it about ethics that you feel would resolve the wars you mention?

 

[João]

I like talking to you about intellectual things. I hope you do too.

Ethics can be claimed on any side of a war and arguments for each sided claims ethics or entitlement to land and resources. Both sides state they are treated unfairly or unethically. Thus, the war in those countries continues and is never resolved.

The wars that exist in those countries are from generations being taught to carry the trauma of their parents. They teach the children to carry that trauma, to fight for their cause and to feel entitled to the land or resources that are under dispute and sadly to hate the other side for the trauma their relatives have experienced. The cycle continues. That is abuse, dysfunction and the repeated traumatisation of our fellow humans. That is not ethics. That is trauma and entitlement being passed to generations.

Ethics are about a rule of conduct. How to behave as determined by a society that they live in. A boxing match can be performed ethically with rules of expected behaviour - it’s still a fist fight at the end of the day, ethics applied or not.

Each society in the wars you mention have their own cultures, bias and behaviours they consider ‘appropriate’. None of which place any responsibility on themselves to behave ethically to the other side.

If there was better appreciation of the inter generational trauma suffered by both sides in the countries mentioned, then they would have a better understanding of each others suffering and seek a trauma informed way of engaging with each other to mediate conflict, rather than causing more harm for the next generation,

Wars are never pretty or just. They never will be. Wars should not exist in this day and age at all.

Sadly, Diplomacy fails time and time again, ethical and moral debates fail. But each side appreciating the trauma of the other may stop it being passed to the next generation so that they may sit at the table of reconciliation and find a way forward peacefully.

If we all believed we could not be untraumatised, we would not seek healing through therapy. We can become self aware, we can become aware of others, we can sit peacefully with our triggers (sometimes and more and more when we find our flow) and we can fight negative self talk. We have to believe in ourselves though - perhaps the biggest barrier to overcoming is beliefs.

It’s not the trauma that matters, it’s the wound it left behind that needs healing. No, we can’t un/experience what we have, we can’t un-see what we have, but we are all here trying to heal that wound.

No one’s tried my approach. Because humans are behaviourally, are creatures of habit and are likely to repeat the same mistakes and apply the same solutions to them - we repeat the cycle remotely consciously. British diplomacy failed in these countries, American diplomacy failed as well. And suffering continues.

I have read nitzchie and his misunderstanding of faith and desire to abolish the idea of God. God represented a very large burden for him and he places much burden on god.

I have faith.

I have read Marcus Arielius, Sellers, Aristotle, everything Stoicsm, Kent. I’ve read modern philosophy - Simon de buviour, Nussbaum, Nagel to name a few.

Philosophy will not stop wars, although it seems to try to understand it which is a good place to start as any.

What is it about ethics that you feel would resolve the wars you mention?

But that is not ethics, that's argumentation. The ontology of ethics is something completely different of what you are talking about. You are misdirecting meanings. Ethics is going toward the general well being of humanity or towards is most considered correct for the good sake of humanity, including specific cases of individual people. So if a war is caused by someone, for instance, lets give the example of Russia, then it is Russia who is not being ethical. There is no justification for that. End of story...

Now, the hate they feel, that is passed through generations is the result of unethical treating between two different populations. That's why the genealogy of the moral comes from the relationship between the creditor and the debtor. One thinks that is superior than the other and thinks that the other owns something to him/her and because of that it should pay the way he may arbitrarily think. That's from where all the evil comes.

Trauma is just a side effect of mistreating between people. If people learn to be ethical with each other, trauma does not surge. You are mixing a lot of stuff together that should not go together. It is not a psychologist that will stop a war, but a politic thinker that uses laws of war and ethics for their people and (if he wants to) for other people. Just see the case of the atomic bomb launched in Hiroshima. They didn't care of how many people were going to die in there and how the field would be affected but they did care about other people that might suffer from the continuation of war. It's a struggle of ethics not trauma, that's what it is.

Nobody can be untraumatized. Once you are traumatized, you will be forever. That I am sure as my psychoterapist says it. What people should do is to learn to live with the trauma despite of it. But that is not an easy thing to do, specially if the factor that causes you trauma does not disappear from your life.

Nitzsche does not only talks about god. He talks about much more things and specially about ethics and is thanks to him that I learnt so much about ethics. Sorry I am atheist but respect those who believe in god. I mentioned this author because of his work in ethics, not in religion.

Lol philosophy stopped so many wars in history. Is thanks to this field that we know what we know nowadays...

Ethics is a way of seeing a solution for the well being of the people in general. That is why, for instance, ONU tries to negotiate with countries that are at war to achieve a point where there can be peace between them. That is ethics applied to war politics. They choose to stop it in order to avoid more innocent people to die. In this example you have a clear application of ethics. I hope that you understand what is the definition of ethics and how it can be applied in the different fields because that is the real important issue

 

[Evie loves Sam]

Ethics is going toward the general well being of humanity or towards is most considered correct for the good sake of humanity, including specific cases of individual people.

I agree about ethics about the well being of humanity and moving towards what is good for the good sake of humanity.

Those involved ‘argue’ what they ‘consider correct’, so why no consensus? I want to see peace and humanity being well, progressing with humanity in mind, just as you do.

I am simply saying that I think (and I’m not an expert nor am I across all the issues), this needs to come from a place of being trauma informed and trauma informed education - a place that I personally feel is empathetic and considered. A place of supporting healing of generations and cultures, and history.

I believe we need to open doors to communication, in a trauma informed way. Work towards the next generations healing.