Dominance and submission

[Mach123]

I had a chance this morning and I didn't do it. She would've "let me," but I was like, "no when you feel like it and you feel better." This is out of character for me but in reality, I've kinda been trying to do it for about thirty years. It'll make her come to me. (not right away, I'll need to convince her first) I've always known that this was the thing to do, but I just could never control myself enough. : ( My friend and I have been talking about this. He is married a long time and just recently did it to his wife. He said it changed things a lot. She gave him the old "I'm tired and you suck but you can do it if you hurry up." That's a compromise of your dignity when you let her do that, and it's actually a kind of reverse rape. It unmans you, so degrading. You do it though if you're desperate, which I always was. So anyway, he said no and he passed. He's been telling me to do it but I have not been able till this morning. We'll c. : ) I'm not just doing it as a trick or a trap either. I know why she wants me to do it or not do it I should say, but I've always been so mental about sex. CSA, the gift that keeps on giving.

 

[Ronin]

he wrecks everything he's given, it has no value for him.

So what about teaching him that value, instead of berating him as a wrecker of things?

And you are sure he is doing things purposefully? Obviously, not sure how old he is, but I would be careful assuming intent. It can come off as tad controling. Maybe the harm and damage is not meant.

and it's actually a kind of reverse rape. It unmans you, so degrading.

Reverse rape? My mental reaction was like, my nigga what the f*ck.... so cough, still thinking what the other kind of phrasing for that is. But basically I am not sure I recognize that being a thing.

Ditto to not relating to that unmaning note, but the thoughts I have on that one are bit more tangled and more of a question of in what ways you think things are unmanly.

 

[Mach123]

So what about teaching him that value, instead of berating him as a wrecker of things?

And you are sure he is doing things purposefully? Obviously, not sure how old he is, but I would be careful assuming intent. It can come off as tad controling. Maybe the harm and damage is not meant.


Reverse rape? My mental reaction was like, my nigga what the f*ck.... so cough, still thinking what the other kind of phrasing for that is. But basically I am not sure I recognize that being a thing.

Ditto to not relating to that unmaning note, but the thoughts I have on that one are bit more tangled and more of a question of in what ways you think things are unmanly.

Thanks for taking the trouble to reply but I'm not really interested in trying to explain it like I said before. Nor do I care what you think about what I said or how I said it. I just need this to think out loud. I don't know why you felt you needed to say all that BS, some pain of yours I guess caused by my tone or whatever, sorry about that, I'm going to block you though, I think that's best.

 

[Mach123]

I spent a couple days in bed to prove my point. We had a heart to heart. We can work it out. It's hard, but I do think we have love still. There is nothing easy about it. I can't afford to let her hurt me the way she does when she refuses me. She tries to play the old game that sex is not love. It is though. Sex is love for men. Maybe not for all men, and maybe I'm not a good representative sample of my sex but, I'll do till one comes along.

For her, I'm perfectly willing to accept sex is not love. Watch the behavior, it's not that hard to figure out. For her (according to a dear old girlfriend of mine) sex is a tool and a weapon. I also read once that women have two weapons, tears and makeup.

Anyway, there is much to do. Better get busy. She likes seeing things getting accomplished.

 

[joeylittle]

I'm not really interested in trying to explain it like I said before. Nor do I care what you think about what I said or how I said it. I just need this to think out loud

If you are not interested in replies, then I'd suggest you use a diary to do the thinking out loud. Otherwise, it's a discussion thread, so there will be responses.

 

[Kintsugi]

Hm. This thread started out as what I think was a pretty fascinating exploration of how kink can be a form of re-enactment. Of course, nothing unusual about that. Not even necessarily inherently unhealthy IMO.

But your “Dom” wife? Sheeeeeesh... are you “in the community?” Connected with other established BDSM practitioners? Online? Go to munches? Because she doesn’t sound like a Dom to me.

Are you familiar with the structure needs, Needs, Wants, wants in D/s?

Also, “reverse rape”... sounds like you or perhaps your friend have been cavorting with the self-described incel community. Remember that one such man ran people over with a truck in Canada, y’know? Those people... their rhetoric is irrefutably toxic, IMO. So, like, maybe try to describe your experience without such loaded phrases coined in some of the most bitter corners of the web. Because your own words are probably better for processing anyway, right?

And yes, that is degrading and emasculating. If degradation isn’t your kink, and that’s a limit, her behavior is just utterly inexcusable. If she’s your “Dom,” do you safeword this crap behavior?

I don’t understand, frankly, how you could call this D/s if it’s not consistently fulfilling, fun, and productive for you.

Safe. Sane. Consensual.

Always.

 

[somerandomguy]

While I don't particularly want to defend @Mach123 as I think he's being willfully obtuse in this thread, I also think calling him an incel is hitting way, way below the belt (so to speak). Are you going to call him an MRA next?

This isn't Reddit, and praise be for that.

I think your BDSM questions have merit, but accusing a man of being or even acting like an incel is a pretty big gendered insult.

 

[Kintsugi]

ng like an incel is a pretty big gendered insult

So... just typing the word “incel” anywhere, nevermind its preceding “self-described” and succeeding “community,” that is to say, a community of people (which, let’s be accurate, is male-dominated but absolutely contains plenty of women in actuality, much like SA and DV populations contain men even though it’s stereotyped by societal attitudes as essentially female afflictions) whom self-identify as that word is unacceptable in responding to a phrase that was coined by that community: reverse rape? I genuinely am not sure where @Mach123 encountered this rhetoric; I’m describing its origin accurately.

cavorting with the self-described incel community.

maybe try to describe your experience without such loaded phrases coined in some of the most bitter corners of the web. Because your own words are probably better for processing anyway, right?

If you’re missing the sincerity and confusing it with insult, I can’t own that misinterpretation.

 

[somerandomguy]

Mach has an ... idiosyncratic way of writing. He seems to use words in ways that don't exactly fit their dictionary definition. I hadn't heard the term "reverse rape" before and have no idea what it's supposed to mean (and I really don't want to know, since I don't truck with those people) but I think it would be better to ask what someone meant by using a specific phrase before telling them "you sound like an [X]."

Case in point: Mach has written many times about his wife "abusing" him. However, there doesn't seem to be any actual, real abuse there as all of the rest of us understand the term. Maddening? Yes. Idiosyncratic? Yes. Worth calling him out over? In my view, probably not, but others may have other opinions.

Just my own opinion. I'm feeling kind of stressed out right now so I may be overreacting. If so, my apologies.

 

[Mach123]

Just really thinking out loud.

If you are not interested in replies, then I'd suggest you use a diary to do the thinking out loud. Otherwise, it's a discussion thread, so there will be responses.

i don't mind responses I just reserved the right to speak "off the cuff," in a thread I started and thought that would be ok. I understand my terminology may not be correct specifically and that I'm often confused myself about what I'm trying to say. I know that people will respond and I'm just not willing to argue. If things get out of hand which I'd regret, I know you guys can shut me down. I'm glad of that. I started a thread some time ago and things got out of hand and it was shut down. I was grateful and told by Anthony to use the thread tools and not argue or respond. I probably shouldn't have said anything. Perhaps I'm not up to managing it. If I do it incorrectly or indelicately I apologise. I just wanted to try some subject matter that's difficult and see if I could manage it. I thought the reply I got was really awful and derogatory towards me and I wouldn't be able to recover from it. These things I'm saying are my opinion. You might disagree, but attacking people or flaming them for an opinion is wrong.

As an aside, @somerandomguy said I was willfully obtuse and I struggle to say things and not be offensive or be 100% certain of that. It's hard stuff to talk about. I wouldn't say I was trying to intentionally offend anyone. I will say I have a hard time writing some things without thinking this might be offensive to someone. I still want to write it somehow even though it feels risky at times.

 

[somerandomguy]

Then I apologize for calling you willfully obtuse. It sounds like you're trying, but are really not quite sure how to say things.

 

[Mach123]

This long rambling post is grateful and I appreciate all of your feedback. : )

To get back to my original point which is "whoever says what's going to happen next" is the dominant one, my wife and I are continuing our thirty year battle about sex and when and how much and who says so. We just moved and bought a house. It's not nearly as big or nice as the one we were living in (renting). The adjustment is very difficult. We met with our mortgage lender a very old Jewish man yesterday who got talking about growing up in the Deep South in the real old days when they had signs posted around where he lived saying "be a man, join the clan." It's a privilege to know someone who had to face down that kind of hate.
So that kind of puts things into perspective you know and he was all like what a privilege it was to help us and get housing for our handicapped daughters and stuff. I was really glad we got a chance to sit with him like that I saw another side of him.
This thing about women and wives and men and husbands and sex is real. For me it's hard to find middle ground in things because I was schooled in sex before I reached the age of reason. I had a "sex life" from my earliest memories and as far as I was concerned if you were with me and we had time alone then sex was an option and it didn't matter what sexual you were, boys and girls are very similar before puberty.
The things that happened I had to live with and I didn't understand why they happened. I don't remember everything. It's hard for me to differentiate the things I want and the things that are re enactments to this day. This is the backdrop for all of my discussions about sex and trying to be an adult and a whole person. Nothing is seperate for me from my CSA and though I've come a long way the whole mess is far from reconciled. I want to say one more time I did not understand till I was in my forties that I'd experienced CSA. I didn't know what those memories were or what they meant.
In this discussion, the most difficult aspect for me is the submissiveness I learned from CSA and trying to deal with it and confusing it with being not my birth sex or with being gay or bisexual. Therapy today. Thanks all of you for being patient with me.