Email fallout with T - need advice please

[scout86]

but it wasn't there. Did you add it yesterday?

Can I say "ouch"? You might not have intended that as an accusation, but it sounds like one to me.

If you think you have been treated unfairly by me over the last 18 months you have recourse to take it up with NCPS."

THAT seems....... a little emotional (?) too. I guess I'm curious about why that might be......

I think @No More makes a good point about your notice being given on a Sat. A lot of times that "48 hours notice" is "business hours". Unless there is office staff assigned to deal with correspondence on weekends, I'm not sure it's fair to expect a T to be on duty 24/7 to check business emails. Even if often they are.

I don't want to pay him for a session to discuss why he's defensive.

To my complete surprise, one of the biggest things I got out of therapy was learning how to deal with conflicts. In my case, that you CAN deal with conflict and it's not the end of the world and not necessarily the end of the relationship either. "Conflict" flipped a lot of switches for me (still does to a point) and I had NO idea how that worked, until I'd worked through a few with my T and found out it was actually possible.

I don't really have an opinion about who's right or wrong in this situation. Sounds like maybe your T hasn't handled it the best way they could. But then, they're human too and they DON'T always handle things perfectly. To be honest, when a client has a tough session, like your described, and then decides to skip the next session, my first thought would be that they're avoiding things. That thought may or may not be right, you'd need more information to know, but starting from there might affect where things go next. IDK. I hope you can work through it, regardless of how things end up. There could be valuable lessons buried in the mess.

 

[beaneeboo]

Sometimes money and business expectations are a huge factor of our lives and taking time to sort that out can help with all sorts of relationship issues.

Thanks for pointing this out. You are right.

The fact that it’s such a big deal to talk about here and process on the forum but you want to obscure it from work with him? Says something to me. You not talking about it is a power play in some way, something to hold onto resentment about that can come back as a weapon later. But also end up hurting you, since ultimately he does have the power. If this becomes a point of contention can you get over it without some work together?

Yes maybe! I do find it hard because when he disagrees with me he becomes very defensive. And I go into myself. I'm unable to confront it. I know I will dissociate and a power dynamic will ensue which will increase the power differential and make me feel unsafe. I'm already not bringing said issues into therapy in case he reacts. I do see this. But I can't do anything about it.

This is an incredibly important point to work through. If it’s coming up with T then chances are it comes up in your relationships.

Thank you. This is really helpful to point out

And chances are that facing this rupture could be important but also very uncomfortable—maybe one to tread lightly and work around rather than go straight to the heart—though I’m probably projecting too.

I'm not sure how to face it. I guess time will tell.

 

[beaneeboo]

Can I say "ouch"? You might not have intended that as an accusation, but it sounds like one to me.

Ok that's interesting to hear. And an example of how written communicationcan be miscommunicated as well as misunderstood.

THAT seems....... a little emotional (?) too. I guess I'm curious about why that might be......

Me too

I think @No More makes a good point about your notice being given on a Sat. A lot of times that "48 hours notice" is "business hours". Unless there is office staff assigned to deal with correspondence on weekends, I'm not sure it's fair to expect a T to be on duty 24/7 to check business emails. Even if often they are.

I totally agree. But like I keep saying, he's always maintained it's OK. So that's why I'm confused.

To my complete surprise, one of the biggest things I got out of therapy was learning how to deal with conflicts. In my case, that you CAN deal with conflict and it's not the end of the world and not necessarily the end of the relationship either. "Conflict" flipped a lot of switches for me (still does to a point) and I had NO idea how that worked, until I'd worked through a few with my T and found out it was actually possible.

Thank you for highlighting this. I do have experience of this myself. And I know you're right. Right now it feels too impossible to consider but I will let things settle. And then see what can happen in terms of addressing things. I'm just not sure what to write back to him now. Do I apologise for something I genuinely shouldn't be apologise for? Do I explain further but then risk him taking something the wrong way? Do I leave it? I don't know what's safe to do.

I don't really have an opinion about who's right or wrong in this situation. Sounds like maybe your T hasn't handled it the best way they could. But then, they're human too and they DON'T always handle things perfectly. To be honest, when a client has a tough session, like your described, and then decides to skip the next session, my first thought would be that they're avoiding things. That thought may or may not be right, you'd need more information to know, but starting from there might affect where things go next. IDK.

Maybe I am. Hearing my whole life story back to me in the last session was over whelming. I came to realise there's a reason why I a dissociative disorder and it's so I don't have to carry around the holistic knowledge of everything. So I do hear you. But on a separate note I don't think I'm using the difficulty I faced last session as a reason to blow up this issue now over email.

I hope you can work through it, regardless of how things end up. There could be valuable lessons buried in the mess.

Thank you and you're right... gotta to see what to do now...

 

[beaneeboo]

I'd feel the same way you do @beaneeboo

But then, I'm known for getting upset about such things and having PTSD reactions to it and creating a bigger fuss than is useful.

Thanks Ecydysis... I know this is familiar to me too and it helps hearing it from someone with a similar stand point

This sort of sounds like you're getting into "little kid" mode... Wanting someone to be perfect and consistent and if they're not then you question the whole relationship.

(At least that's basically what my brain would do)

Ok yes ..I hadn't seen it like this and I think you may be right....I do have high expectations and one wrong move and snip, gotta cut that cord... I will consider this.

I guess a more adult version would be that all people are imperfect, have bad days, are inconsistent, are sometimes unreasonable, unpolite or unfair and sometimes we have to accept that...?

Ok

I'd say that if it's going to cost you energy and potentially more time in therapy to discuss and clarify this, then I'd make sure that it's helpful for you therapeutically and hence you find a way of discussing it that provides you with some kind of growth about how you react to such things...?

I mean really I'd hope that as the therapist he would guide me / us in this. Maybe that's unrealistic? But as a trauma client, I would hope when things get difficult he's able to manage his emotions so they don't get embroiled with mine. I do think he's over reacting and he's misunderstood where I'm coming from and being defensive. That's on him really imo. But due to previous run ins in therapy, I'm worried he'll not be able to contain his own frustration and that will set me off again (dissociation). I really don't think I've done anything so terrible this time but the way he's reacting feels like his emotions are bigger and stronger than mine right now.

 

[No More]

Yes you may be right. I think not only from last session but also the time his reactions in session made me dissociate really badly to the point one of my parts came out in session which was very painful for me. It's really hard to get over that and a trust issue developed from it for sure. Not sure i can get over it.

You may say that's what I should be discussing but I disagree. It's too dangerous for me

Yea - sorry!

Can you talk around the issue? Can you say I feel like taking about this is going to be dangerous for me? Maybe this is something you can fact/reality check as well. I’m sure it’s very hard and difficult, and none of this is easy. But you’ve known your T for 18 months - is it really dangerous?

Yes maybe! I do find it hard because when he disagrees with me he becomes very defensive. And I go into myself. I'm unable to confront it. I know I will dissociate and a power dynamic will ensue which will increase the power differential and make me feel unsafe. I'm already not bringing said issues into therapy in case he reacts. I do see this. But I can't do anything about it.

Kind of the same thing as above, but what about his disagreement is making you feel unsafe? Disagreement imo is generally a fairly positive thing. I rather like disagreeing with people and seeing their perspectives & progress. This feels like a really important topic to discuss because there’s so much to it. I don’t see how therapy can be truly effective if you can’t disagree with him and him with you?

There’s loads of important & really amazing reflection in your posts. I think there’s a lot of very worthwhile stuff in there for discussion & a way forward. Don’t be too discouraged & hard on yourself. This is amazing for learning & growing!

 

[beaneeboo]

Yea - sorry!

Can you talk around the issue? Can you say I feel like taking about this is going to be dangerous for me?

Yes this may be a good way forward. I may tell him this if the opportunity arises.

Maybe this is something you can fact/reality check as well. I’m sure it’s very hard and difficult, and none of this is easy. But you’ve known your T for 18 months - is it really dangerous?

No he's not to my adult self. But he is to one of my parts. I hear what you're saying. A reality check is knowing he's not. But try explaining that to the part who will make me dissociate badly.

Kind of the same thing as above, but what about his disagreement is making you feel unsafe? Disagreement imo is generally a fairly positive thing.

I agree whole heartedly. And we have disagreed on things in a healthy way before. But I guess when he gets triggered too our dynamic is such that he goes almighty ('Don't dare criticise or go against what I'm saying' - he's not said that but it's in his voice, his body language, his facial expressions. And actually if I think about it, it's also in his last email to me. 'If you disagree with me, I'm not going to address it with you. You can go to my professional body). Whereas my position is to get smaller and dissociate and feel I'm in danger.

I rather like disagreeing with people and seeing their perspectives & progress. This feels like a really important topic to discuss because there’s so much to it. I don’t see how therapy can be truly effective if you can’t disagree with him and him with you?

You are of course right. And if I think about this, I struggle with disagreement in my real life world context. I am quite fragile in that way. It's like someone disagreeing with me is confirmation that I'm that bad person that other parts of myself are telling me that I am. So I hear what you're saying.

My main barrier right now is feeling that it's dangerous ground and to keep out.

There’s loads of important & really amazing reflection in your posts. I think there’s a lot of very worthwhile stuff in there for discussion & a way forward. Don’t be too discouraged & hard on yourself. This is amazing for learning & growing!

Thank you for this positive reflection. I can't tell you how much this means to me.

 

[KayW]

I'm just surprised because you've always said cancelling before 48 hours is without charge. So what you're saying today is new to me.

To me, this does sound passive aggressive. I think sometimes when we try to make our anger sound polite, it does still come across

"I'm not comfortable with the tone of this exchange. Your email acknowledged it was late in the day to cancel – which it was – and asked if that was OK – which it wasn't. You have had my answer on the matter. If you think you have been treated unfairly by me over the last 18 months you have recourse to take it up with NCPS."

I can imagine if I was upset that I would feel like he was being defensive. But when I look at this coldly, he's said that he's uncomfortable and he's put down boundaries.

Because of abuse, I've found it difficult to know where to put boundaries and difficult when people with authority put down boundaries for me. I think this is common and I'm thinking that maybe your therapist is giving you strong boundaries to help you find your own?

Why do I feel so upset and wronged by this email exchange? What have I done wrong? And how do I answer him now?

I think the why is important - I'd be tempted to reframe the second question into a why question too - why do I feel I've done something wrong. We've all got PTSD here and often feelings are totally valid in relation to trauma, but they can give a skewed view of what's going on in the present.

The last question - how do you answer him now - it looks like you and your therapist agreed that you would discuss it in your next session, so maintaining boundaries would be not to continue the email exchange and to wait until the next session. This would also give you time to reflect on those why's and hopefully reduce the feelings a little.

 

[beaneeboo]

To me, this does sound passive aggressive. I think sometimes when we try to make our anger sound polite, it does still come across

Thanks. I'm finding this really interesting to hear everyone's different take on it. I genuinely meant that information factually. Not aggressively or angrily in any way. Literally: 'I'm surprised. The info is new to me. Before you've always said x.' It really wasn't loaded in any way. And I was purely trying to describe my perspective.

But what I'm learning from this, getting back to what @nomore said is that written communication can be very problematic because things are taken so differently or put across differently.

I hear what you say. Even if I didn't mean it like this, there's room for it to have been taken this way.

I can imagine if I was upset that I would feel like he was being defensive. But when I look at this coldly, he's said that he's uncomfortable and he's put down boundaries.

I see this. But I also think it's very unnecessary to say to me to take up with his professional body if i feel he's been treating me unfair for the last 18 months. I haven't suggested he has at any point. I think it's inflammatory.

Because of abuse, I've found it difficult to know where to put boundaries and difficult when people with authority put down boundaries for me. I think this is common and I'm thinking that maybe your therapist is giving you strong boundaries to help you find your own?

Maybe. I hadn't seen it like this. But honestly my gut says this isn't the case. Or, that he's tried to, but his execution wasn't great because its inflammatory. He knows full well this is not about me complaining about his practice. And reading back I've been very open about saying I value his work highly so my questioning of the 48 hour thing is not about money. Its about rules changing without me being informed.

I think the why is important - I'd be tempted to reframe the second question into a why question too - why do I feel I've done something wrong. We've all got PTSD here and often feelings are totally valid in relation to trauma, but they can give a skewed view of what's going on in the present.

Ok thank you for this perspective. I will give it some thought and try to figure out what I can do with that.

The last question - how do you answer him now - it looks like you and your therapist agreed that you would discuss it in your next session, so maintaining boundaries would be not to continue the email exchange and to wait until the next session. This would also give you time to reflect on those why's and hopefully reduce the feelings a little.

Atm there is no next session unless I ask for one. I don't want to ask for one at this stage until I'm more settled with it and know where I stand in it all. I guess I'll just keep silent until I know what I want to do.

Thanks KayW

 

[Movingforward10]

I'm not comfortable with the tone of this exchange. Your email acknowledged it was late in the day to cancel – which it was – and asked if that was OK – which it wasn't. You have had my answer on the matter. If you think you have been treated unfairly by me over the last 18 months you have recourse to take it up with NCPS."

I would feel majorly upset if my T emailed this. It's the first and last sentence that seem defensive. And dismissive.
I wonder if he will apologise about it on reflection? As he is a reflective person and whilst there have been times where you have missed each other you've worked your way through a lot together.
Perhaps he has things going on that have interfered with his ability to put his stuff aside in this email?

Honestly I think all this shows is why email is such a disaster.

But totally this. Because everything I've put above is interpretation of what he means and the only way to find out is to ask him.


What will help you work through these emotions?

 

[beaneeboo]

I would feel majorly upset if my T emailed this. It's the first and last sentence that seem defensive. And dismissive.
I wonder if he will apologise about it on reflection? As he is a reflective person and whilst there have been times where you have missed each other you've worked your way through a lot together.
Perhaps he has things going on that have interfered with his ability to put his stuff aside in this email?

Ok. Interesting it would make you feel that way too. Most people's replies feel that I've been the one to misinterpret and that my replies to him weren't great.

It's exactly what I feel though, that he's been defensive and dismissive. And more than that, the comment about going to his professional body to me is so OTT that his message wasn't for me to actually do that, but instead 'I'm not going to listen to you. So my door's closed. You can take it up with them instead as I'm not engaging'. So there's a feeling of unfairness for me because he's very much misinterpreted my intentions by questioning re the 48 hr thing (I'm questioning the infomation, NOT HIM and I think he's taken it really personally). And he's not given space to enquire or ask about my intentions. But assumed the worst of me instead. Which is upsetting to me because I've really never done anything to him.

But totally this. Because everything I've put above is interpretation of what he means and the only way to find out is to ask him.

Yep. Agree.

What will help you work through these emotions?

I don't know. I'm not managing very well and there are lots of unhealthy thoughts and feelings I'm trying to battle right now. I can't stop crying. But I'm trying to hide it from my son.

I think going out for a walk will help so will do that first.

 

[Movingforward10]

the comment about going to his professional body to me is so OTT that his message wasn't for me to actually do that, but instead 'I'm not going to listen to you. So my door's closed. You can take it up with them instead as I'm not engaging

I feel that too. That he brings in the last 18 months into this, to me, makes me think he is bringing his stuff into this exchange. And there isn’t the unconditional positive regard.

And he's not given space to enquire or ask about my intentions

i agree. If he was using his unconditional positive regard, he could maintain his boundary of: you need to pay but we can explore what has happened in the next session. I don’t think he would ask about intentions as that would be doing therapy over email, but allowing space to bring this to the next session would be the way to deal with this.

Which is upsetting to me because I've really never done anything to him.

Of course. But, even if you did, he is your therapist and he needs to manage things.

don't know. I'm not managing very well and there are lots of unhealthy thoughts and feelings I'm trying to battle right now. I can't stop crying. But I'm trying to hide it from my son.

Does it help to think that this has triggered things in you (and 8n my view triggered things in him, which then further triggers things in you)? And that when These feelings subside, it feeels sooooooo much better. This is the hard part. But it will pass. And there will be resolution.

I think going out for a walk will help so will do that first.

that sounds a good thing to do. Some fresh air. Some space. Some Nature maybe. Moving the body. Breathing. All positive things.

 

[beaneeboo]

And there isn’t the unconditional positive regard.

you've put into words what I was struggling with. I guess there's the possibility he thinks I don't have that for him because of how he took my questioning.

Of course. But, even if you did, he is your therapist and he needs to manage things.

I think that's what I was hoping for. Though I know there are people here who would say it's not for the client to sit back and allow the T to do the work.

I think I could just do with someone who doesn't flip out when I question something about a perceived difference in opinion. I need a boundaried but calm response like you mention. And I feel like I've done something very very wrong and I'm trying to understand exactly what that is. Just confused really.

Does it help to think that this has triggered things in you (and 8n my view triggered things in him, which then further triggers things in you)?

yes it does... keeps it logical

And that when These feelings subside, it feeels sooooooo much better. This is the hard part. But it will pass. And there will be resolution.

You've reminded me of this before. And you're always right... So although I can't experience that now, I'll take your word for it. Thanks for the reminder.

that sounds a good thing to do. Some fresh air. Some space. Some Nature maybe. Moving the body. Breathing. All positive things.

I had a good walk and I do feel better thanks. It helped work off some nervous energy

Thank you for your genuine support

I hope you're well :)