Feeling Lost And Alone

[MR CLEAN]

Hi Farine

Actually you pretty much resumed my own situation (it takes her about 5 months to come around). It seems no matter what I do It's my fault. I think she brainwashes herself and simply forgets that she loves me. The one difference in our situations is that her mother is actually on my side. She lives with us and sees what happening. When I left my wife 2 years ago her mother actually told me that she could'nt understand how I put up with her daughter for so long. She would have left long before.

If things go as they usualy do in about 6 to 8 weeks I'll start getting what I call the nothing phone calls. Right now she calls only if she needs something or some money or so the kids can say goodnight (the only highlight of my day). The nothing calls are for no reason at all. (where are you, what are you doing, where is this or that. No valid reason for a call) It feels like she only want's to here my voice. Then slowly things seem to get better. Is your situation similar ?

It's nice to see that I'm not alone.
Thanks a bunch
hope to here from you soon.

 

[Farine]

It is similar in some ways and different in others. In my case, it was me with the children moving out to my parent's house twice. I'm very sad that you are missing your children. I'm so sorry about that! Just keep sending the love out... love is very powerful...

The other thing is that I'm really glad to have the intervals where things are relatively good. Like now. You have longer intervals than I do, and maybe more chaos in between. My chaos has a different feel to it, but it's hard on everyone. My heart goes out to you... and that's why I wanted to encourage you. Because I know....

 

[MR CLEAN]

Hi Farine

Consider yourself not only thanked but hugged as well. You're a real blessing.

I really feel for your situation and it must be hard for you as well. But at least you had your children with you. I wish I had them with me. For now my wife and I have decided not to tell them what is really going on, they think that Daddy works out of town during the week. I get to see them on the weekend (Friday night until Sunday after the bedtime story). God leaving on Sunday nights is unbearable, It breaks my heart every week to leave the ones I love behind (and I cant even tell my wife I love her because she flips out and tells me to get a life).

Last week, before I left, my wife asked me to give her back my house keys because it's not my place anymore (that hurt). But this week I thought things were moving on the positive side because when I got home on Friday, without saying a word, she gave me back the house keys and walked away, then yesterday (Sunday), my oldest son and I went out to to an expo (15 minutes away from the house). Then a nothing a nothing call (she called to see if we were almost there and to ask if my son was excited. Am I grasping or it's not a valid call from one's EX 10 minutes after we left. She sounded all nice and sweet and bitchy like in the last couple of weeks). She called again to see if we were having fun about an hour and a half later ????? ( Talk about getting your hopes up and seeing the light at the end of the tunnel).

But last night (was not a great evening I Poppa Beared I little on her) just as I was walking out the door she reminded me to leave HER keys behind (OUCH). And she always asks me to call her when I get to my mothers so that she knows I'm O.K (kinda of mixed messages ?).

The power of love is strong. But sometimes I wonder if it's strong enough.
But I won't give up. I wow it to her and to my children.

Thanks for being there.
See you soon.

C

 

[Farine]

You're more than welcome!

The kids know what side of the bread is buttered. They know where the love comes from. If she's being difficult with you, she's being hard on them too. I got the girls some counseling and it really made a huge difference. Just having a safe place for them to talk to a trusted adult who is relaxed was a huge help.

I know it's tough to think about anything other than the pain. Pain is myopic. It makes the world a much narrower place. There are some things that you can do that is unique to the interval.
You can give your emotional energy to yourself. It's not being sucked out of you. I found that I needed to do that. And I needed to put some limits on his access. She's putting her hands out for the 'keys'. That's such a hardnosed control maneuver. And she feels like she has the real power because she controls the access to the children. You have been willing to play the game her way. I understand that.

My question is when you are in a different space, can you own your head? Take your thoughts back. She's saying she's running her own life. Fine.. for now. Let her. You run yours. Play your game, not hers. These little calls are how she's reaching over and running both your and hers. Establish when you will talk to her.. and when you won't..

For me, I had regular times every week when I would take his calls. If he called outside of those calls, I would answer and then tell him that I'd call him back or he could call me during those windows. He used to call me when he knew I was doing bedtime rituals with the girls. THat's not right. 45 minutes later, they are totally asleep and he could wait that long. But he'd consistently call again during 'their' time. I mention this because it's easier to see from the outside.

I know that the fear is that she'll get mad and take everything away. She'll respect you more if you have some common sense edges and stick to it. "I can't make sense of my new status if we talk every day. I want to talk every other day.. or something like that. " She'll still test you on it, but when you stick to it, she'll have to wonder what is next.

My husband took me to the point where we were in an attorney's office and getting paperwork for divorce. Then I found out that the whole thing was meant to pressure me to give in on a boundary I've had since we were dating in sex. Our marriage barely survived that. Learning about boundaries is a good thing. One thing that I learned was that he needed me more than I needed him. After thinking I might lose the marriage over a period of time, mentally, I grieved and in a sense moved on. Now, he knows he can't play the divorce card because that mental button has been burnt out. It simply doesn't work. If he is going to do it.. I'll survive.. and I'll even make it look good.

Grow. Explore. You've been a care giver all this time. You can visit the gym. Go swimming. If you need a ton of ideas of fun things to do for almost no money (because financial control is a big piece of the pie).. I have that. Heal. Make friends. Barbeque. You'll end up using that emotional energy when you go back. Fill your cup.. fill your cup...

 

[MR CLEAN]

Hey Farine
Lot's of stuff in you,re last post (read it over and over) and I did ask myself a lot of questions.

I know kids are smarter then we think and that they pick up on a lot of little things, but I must admit we really do everything we can to not let things show. However our oldest son is oversensitive and has been for years and I imagine the PTSD (hyper-vigilance) has a lot to do with it. Unfortunately in our area we have a government run health care system and the waiting list for is just about two years to get a first visit and we can't really afford private care.

Your also right about pain being myopic, it seems that right now the only thing I do is live in the pain even though I know that I should be looking at the big picture. Ultimately right now I'm the last one who ones my mind.

Tonight I did try to own the phone call, I did make her call me back (she was actually cutting into her bedtime ritual with the kids) She didn't have anything to say when she did call back, but5 it's the principal that counts right ?

I imagine that I do have to grow and explore. But honestly the things that have given me the most pleasure are Play-do and Lego (basically being a Dad). I know that I've got to do things to change my mindset, but its a tough go.

Take care

C

 

[Farine]

*nod* *nod* It's a relief to say something useful. Anything useful. Well, C, I think you did something very productive with your phone call.

I'm actually saying quite a lot of things that have happened to me in this discussion. I wanted to thank you for allowing me to do that and accepting me. It's very much appreciated. One of the things that I do is write. During my stay with my parents, the recession was in full swing. The thought was to create a lecture that would be given from the local church halls with their sound equipment. Several of them had video projectors. I got to do some of these speeches.. Now, I didn't have many people in the audience. It was doing something that propelled me out of myself.

For example, the first topic was called "The Next Best THing to Money". It addressed several different economies that aren't connected to money. For example, there is a grass roots tip economy. WHenever you provide a tip that someone else considers valuable, people will tend to reciprocate in kind. Being competitive, we tend to vie for the biggest, more valuable tip. The great news is that you can use one tip over and over to get new bits of information from many people. Stuff like that.

Meeting so many people was hard, but I was trying to actually make some money this way. Book enough people... and it didn't work the way I thought it would. I barely made expenses. However, I did make a lot of friends out of that experience. Several of those friends are still in my circle today. You don't know what tomorrow holds. Just a thought..

Creative stuff works for me. I feel alive and connected at that point. It's a very dark time if I don't feel like tweaking this or adjusting that. I've had quite a few of those dark times. A potential list of coping modes might include some of the following:

Walking, swimming or any form of moderate exercise.
I like to work with clay. You mentioned play do. Did you know that there is polymer clay for grown ups? Here is some things you do with it: http://www.polyclay.com/
I like to daydream. WHen I feel like I need a mini-vacation, I like google maps. Here is the Pompeii ruins. http://mashable.com/2009/12/04/pompeii-street-view/
Writing.
I like to meet people around here in Beverly Hills and talk to them and see them think "HELP HELP! The SCENERY is TALKING to ME!!!" Cracks me up. I'm a person. Get over it.
I like to watch funny clips on Youtube.
I pray. I pray a lot. That's the whole part of the serenity prayer that I don't have any control over. I can't make him do the things that he needs to do in many cases. Hey, he is taking the prescription non smoking Chantix. He finally decided to work on that. I'm really proud of him for that! More prayer needed because I'm not sure he has a back up plan for how he's going to handle his stress without the cigs. Wish him luck on that.
Well, this post is getting kinda long. Thanks for listening!!!

 

[MR CLEAN]

Hi Farine.

You have no idea how useful your comments are, and it's a relief to finally have someone to talk to that understands what's going on. I do have a few people that a talk to but they cant understand all they can do is be supportive wich is good but it's not the same.

I did the phone call thing again today (I took control of my time). It worked out o.k.
But today was a really bad day for her (crappy mood) and she pretty much laid into me where it hurts. (except the kids, she knows better than play that game).
Reminded me that I'm getting my own place (right below her (our) place (so I could be with the kids every evening). But it's hard and tonight I'm down in the dumps. But hey, life goes on right ?

I do the you tube thing, watch movies things to keep my mind busy on other things but I still wind up thinking about my wife and kids.
As for prayer, I do my share, read my bible as well, and Wednesday nights is usually a church night with on of my buddies. A little fellowship cant hurt. But I usually come out of church feeling frustrated, kinda pissed off (sorry).

As for meeting people, it not really me, I'm really low key and shy. I get along with just about anybody and enjoy people but it's a challenge to go up to people and just say Hi ! (It's a wonder I ever got married :smile:).

Thanks for the links, I will go see Pompeii, but I'll pass on the clay, I enjoy the play-doe for the company not really the activity.

Have a good night (or day) L.A time ???
Hope to here from you soon !

C

 

[Farine]

To Not Being Alone *Toast*

Hello C,

[Note to anyone else reading the discussion: Jump in, the water's warm!] :wink:

Well, if you're shy, I'm extroverted. I'm sorry (not that I'm somehow responsible) that your wife was harsh. I certainly wondered why the phone calls came in at certain points when I was starting to feel some equilibrium. Some sense of upness and downness was the preliminary precursors of perspective.

Practicing tracking my thoughts.. as opposed to 'our' thoughts.. wasn't because I felt I was more right than he was. On the contrary, when his emotions aren't involved, his thoughts are often more accurate. However on target as relating to a outside question, these were not MY thoughts. Keeping a journal during that time was very useful. I don't keep one now, but I was thinking about keeping a diary here at some point as I can keep it safe.

I liked Tony Robbins rewording of responsible.. to response-able.. able to respond. There are so many times when I've been put in charge of things without the authority.. as if to spin straw in to gold.. or make a dinner that he liked without specific details about what he might like.. I'm making sound like the troll under the bridge. He's definitely got good points or I wouldn't have married him. The distortion of his perspective was meant to travel along the relationship couple channel and somehow distort me.

And that is what I struggled with. I'm not a bad person. I make mistakes. I'll be the first to admit that. But the whole list of character traits I've been handed.. isn't me. I don't need to defend myself from something that has no basis in fact. I'm thinking that whatever she told you was character based.. and just like my situation, I would say that there is a kernel of truth there.. and distortion. If what she said was true, it would be popping up in multiple places.

I'll give you an example. My ex brother in law is very self-centred. Everyone agrees on that. Some have said narcissist.. some say he's a very poor sport.. some say he's a jerk .. and so forth. But you don't have some people declaring he's a saint and others bemoaning his flaws. I think the point of the character beat down is to keep you from actually growing out of the relationship... so that a renegotiation of the couple contract can occur with terms more favourable to the other person.

That is something that I must strongly caution you to avoid. You really need to love yourself so you can hold the line on what is decent and proper and truly loving. If she is allowed to set all the terms, eventually you aren't even allowed to be a person. You end up as an appendage to her personality. That's morally reprehensible. It's my hope that she's not going there and that somehow I'm horribly wrong. Let me know if my statements hold water. I'm certainly not going to be offended where you tell me I'm off base. For me, it's a test of our similarities. I await your response... :)

 

[MR CLEAN]

Hey Farine !

Believe it not, I'm not a bad person either, far from perfect, but not a bad person.

Ya yesterday was bad, but I do have to say that she doesn't do the character attacks. She knows what buttons to push, all she really has to do is nudge them a little. She knows all to much how important my family is to me ( there basically everything. What can I say, I'm a family man. If they're happy, I'm happy).
What she uses is the, « I'm looking forward to you having your own place», «we had a really nice day today», «It's not you, it's just that I don't love you anymore», « Why don't you just give up and move on». And if you remember well, in my first post, 3 days before she kicked me out, we were visiting houses to buy ???? (Still doesn't make sense)

The only thing, she can hold against me (and she uses it when she's backed into a corner) is « Everything was fine by you, when you walked out on us». My only reply is « Just because a made a huge mistake, doesn't mean you have to do the same» (really bright reply).


I liked the

I think the point of the character beat down is to keep you from actually growing out of the relationship...

. Believe it or not it's kind of comforting.
It sounds like she's not really though with us but just needs some space for now. Is that what you meant ?
As for the couple renegotiation. I won't really budge on who I am or what I am. They know me for being myself anything less would be wrong.
Loving, caring,thoughtful, kind, hard working, faithful, understanding, patient and honest (gee, sounds like a pretty good package to me).

You have my word that I will not be offended by your statements, and they do make very good sense. I was actually telling someone today that I feel like you know my situation as if you have been watching my life on T.V, only that you're one episode ahead of me. (cheesy picture, but it's the best I can come up with).

Hope to hear from you very soon. Thanks for caring.

C

P.S Are my spelling and wording getting any better ?

 

[Farine]

Heya C! Actually yes, your spelling and wording are great! You're welcome!

I'm also hoping that you'll do some reading of the other posts and resources here. I feel like a big sponge. It's been such a relief to see the coordinated responses to so many of the issues that I thought were unique to me. I've been reminded to limit my contact.. he calls it spam .. when he's not feeling good. I've also picked up on the calm tone of voice. That was confirmed for me in another discussion. That's very useful. Even if I'm getting irritated, I can control that and then dump the agitation on my own time. He's on day 2 of the withdrawal from the cigs. There's no way I'm going to allow this serious attempt to go by the boards just because I'm feeling a bit needy or unappreciated.

The lesson that I learned was in one particular fight during the 1st reunion. He took every possible position to say that i 'must' do it [that thing i mentioned before]. I said "if you don't want me, it's a voluntary involvement. I come with this requirement. You knew about it before we got married. I'm not available in any other form. If you say that you have to have IT.. then I guess we're through and that's all that can be said."

"You'll send me to hell because you won't change your mind? I have to have this.. and I have to have you."
"If you have to have me.. then you'll have to let IT go.. simple as that. This wasn't negotiable in the beginning.. it isn't now. and I'm not going to be changing anytime in the future."

*******
A little light went on there... "I have to have you." Now he still sent me away.... but he couldn't stop himself from calling.. from being connected in some fashion to me...
We did renegotiate the relationship four months later.. which is why I wanted you to have that heads up... and he made yet another effort to get that in place. Every time he called me, he showed me that as much as he struggled with the fact he was connected.. he was .. indeed.. connected. Now, he doesn't mind so much. We'll see how that is when he gets to week 2 of the withdrawal from the nicotine.

She's pushing all the 'it's over' buttons.. and that's harsh. The reminding of the past.. that's sort of a character beat down. I like the rule that my therapist friend has. The only relevant business is two weeks old. If it's over two weeks.. the statute of limitations kicks in and it's no longer suitable for comment. I don't think I'd get him to agree to it. It is a pleasant thought though. I try to live by it. It's a good incentive to get current business handled.

Oh.. and I wanted to mention one thing too.. WHat is it called when one person is fighting..... *drum roll*..... a TANTRUM! Keep that in mind as you keep yourself in check.. Mostly, it's good to have a friend who understands me too. Hi FRIEND!

He's due home from work soon and I wanted to focus on his success as he makes it around each hour.. each minute without caving into this. I know he's miserable.
Farine

 

[MR CLEAN]

Hello Friend.

Believe me I have been reading a lot of material in most of the sections in the forum, some apply, some don't. But I have to admit that I don't reply often. I don't really feel comfortable yet. Lots of people have been here longer or are more articulate than I. I've replied once or twice but after looking at my post it just didn't seem appropriate. I guess I'm still in the questions mode and not in the answer mode. I imagine that will come in it's own time.

It's been a really crappy couple of days and an bad week altogether and I'll get into that later on.

I truly hope your hubby will do good with the cigarettes.

Talk to you soon

C

 

[Frankie]

Bonjour Mr.Clean (Monsieur Propre) :)

I have been reading your thread and I do feel for you, I can tell you truly love your wife...but it isn't always easy...is it ?

I will say a bit of my story....will not go in details, many here already know my story, It is all here, if ever you have to urge to read it :). I haven't been online as often as I used to be........cause it still hurts to come here, so many sad stories that still affect me...but also so many hopeful stories and those get to me too :). I still choose to come, because I have gotten to know some here and I want to still be able to follow their lives....makes me happy to hear that they are doing better.

I came on the forum in 2007, at a very happy time in my life....I had met a special man who has PTSD, I wanted to learn as much as I could about the disorder, and after a few months I found this forum. We were together for 2 wonderfull years where PTSD did not affect our relationship, we talked a lot...he opened up to me about everything that happened to him...he talked to me about his feelings, shared his emotions and he trusted me. He was seeing a therapist on a weekly basis and was on medications.

All this changed when in August of 2008 he got badly triggered by something that happened at my appartment....and our nightmare began. This is where I can say I understand what you are going through. My exbf would contact me every 2 or 3 months....telling me he loved me, he needed me, and we would try again....which would last one weekend, everything seemed great...and I would think he was ok again....till he would disappear again, and no contact for another 2 months or so.

I had to put an end to this yo-yo effect in November...I sent him a voice mail message and an email asking him to not contact me anymore. It is almost 5 months now and he has respected my wishes.

PTSD is a very serious disorder that can only be managed and controlled, and it does require a lot of work....ongoing...and if the person is in denial...then it is very very hard for them to get better. You can only support....and can't push them in anything...but you also have to establish your limits and you have to find a way to let her understand how you feel.

You are not a saint....I know how frustrating it can be. They do have a tendency to push us away...then pull us back in.

My exbf is a changed man now...The last I heard he has stopped going to therapy, he is not on medication anymore.
He has gone from one relationship to another....searching for peace ? always searching...he is maybe now in denial. I don't know.

All I know is that I had to do what I did because what he was putting me through was hurting me very much. I loved him more then I can say. It truly was the hardest choice I have had to make. Then of course, the guilt, for what happened to trigger him...and the guilt of "abandoning" him. It took me a while to get rid of the guilt.

Why am I saying this ? Mostly to let you know that you are ok, you do love your wife and you want to stay married with her.....you are trying...now she has to try to make efforts to make it work too. I know it is not easy...but can be so rewarding. I know that if my exbf wasn't so badly triggered and had to leave ...I still would be with him...PTSD and all.

Frankie