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Fight or Flight

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Due to trauma-based symptoms, I had workplace disrespect that grew until I had to issue a harassment charge. I've since left that workplace, but I still run into people from there who are angry about the charge and try to show aggressive disrespect, spreading it to others.

For conflict, I have the choice of kitten or tiger. [I used to freeze, but symptoms got better.] Mostly, I only ever let kitten show on the outside, so people think I'm a pushover and keep trying to show increasing disrespect. But if I go tiger, it's a little too much and it's going to look like I was the one in the wrong. I come off as that one irate customer who leaves the customer service representative trembling as I walk away. (I've only done this 1 or 2 times. It doesn't feel good, I don't like it, and I don't think it helps to solve the problem).

If I could just control that Fight or Flight trauma symptom, I think I could engage problems with reasonable tone and confidence. But half the time I'm looking at them smirking and misbehaving the way one might look at a kitten who's teasing a tiger. A lot of these people are a few cards short of a deck.

How do you calmly inform an idiot that they are setting your agent orange off and would they please stop?
 
that they are setting your agent orange off and would they please stop?
This. You refuse to engage with them in the first place. It's ok to walk away before getting to the point that you have to fight or flight. Because then YOU are in control of the situation, so you can determine the outcome you want.
They can blather and blah blah, but it won't matter because you've removed yourself from the equation,

Another thought is to come up with three or four stock phrases that you use whenever you are challenged that you know will make you feel more in control. That way you've already played out the conversation in your mind so there is less chance of getting wound up.
 
How do you calmly inform an idiot that they are setting your agent orange off and would they please stop?
I don’t. It’s not their job to manage my emotions or actions. That’s my job. Which I wouldn’t entrust to a sainted genius with the best of intentions, much less a moron. Or, worse, a moron who could give f*ck all about me.

Doesn’t mean other people don’t TRY to make me their muppet from time to time, I’ve just never been keen.
 
honesty with ourselves helps. our emotions are valid and worthwhile. we don't need to hide, we don't need to repress. And we can be Calm while expressing Irritation.

practice. raise your voice at home - not shouting, just Loud. practice intonation. do it until you're comfortable with it, and feel good at it. self-expression and communication are skills and are worthy of practice.

on site, i remind myself how much contempt i have for the majority of the human race, and then i treat them like the idiots they are. I talk Loud, Firm, Calm/Succinct, Measured, with a dose of Venom.

never ever swear. swearing is shorthand for emotions and lets emotions through. i've heard a lot of site managers tear down an idiot subcontractor, and they Never swear when administering discipline.

Success is measured by how many people stop to watch, then scuttle off or hide their eyes. Bonus points if people hunch their shoulders and shrivel.
 
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Thank you all for your responses. I do have a few ready-made things I can say when challenged, and that is very helpful to make me feel calmer. Mostly, I do walk away and refuse to engage, ignore, maybe tell the manager if it's someone in a service capacity and I'm the customer.

I can choose what I do, but it's a little difficult to control the emotional state. And the emotional state of alarm is what makes it difficult to handle these situations by doing anything other than walking away, ignoring. Looking affected isn't always help-able. Have you ever seen your kid doing something so dangerous that you just about swallow your tongue? You might be shouting at them just because you're afraid. Most people don't discipline their kids if they're really upset. They walk away and wait until they are a little calmer. But, in these situations, that 'little calmer' state isn't always an option.

Also, these people are pretty determined. They try and up the ante when I ignore them, increasing their misbehavior to unacceptable levels that shouldn't be ignored. I won't do the 'Fight' again if I can help it. When I'm in fight mode, I don't shout or swear, I don't even raise my voice...but it's the tone and the emotion behind it that makes them nervous.

I long for the day I can be smiley and friendly again with easy confidence. It's hard to smile and hard to look people in the eye sometimes even when I'm not nervous or stressed and I'm with people I like. I could do all of those things, even debate with professors and give presentations to large groups before the symptoms came to the surface.
 
I can choose what I do, but it's a little difficult to control the emotional state. And the emotional state of alarm is what makes it difficult to handle these situations by doing anything other than walking away, ignoring
Then that’s one of the places where you start... by walking away until you can control.

One of the others would be deliberately triggering the reaction, in a controlled environment, so that you can practice BOTH walking away, and handling shit on the fly / in the moment, in a manner of your choosing. So that when you’re in an uncontrolled environment (like dealing with others who are deliberately provoking you) you’re well practiced in doing exactly what you want to do.

I long for the day I can be smiley and friendly again with easy confidence.
One of the dangers with PTSD is an all or nothing / black and white viewpoint. There’s a whole lot of middle ground between friendly with easy confidence & full on fight/flight. Even if one kicks into the other in the space of a heartbeat, or it feels like these are the only 2 choices. I’m not saying you are seeing being wound tight as a drum or easy and relaxed as the only 2 ways of being, just that it’s a thing to look out for.

I’ve killed people in fight/flight mode, and come close to IDFK how many times. Blink and someone is up against a wall, or subdued on the floor. That fast. So it’s absolutely paramount to me that I’m under my own control, as much as humanly possible. The whole “I would never” is an illusion & luxury I don’t have. I very much know I can, because I have. Just like I can hit all the intermediary points of uncontrolled rage/reaction directed outward. From popping off like a frog in a sock, to felonious assault.

I don’t go around warning other people not to make me mad, or bad things will happen... in point of fact I consider either people being afraid of me or attempting to handle me/ deal with me a lose... I make note MYSELF, when I’m getting mad (or edgy, or my adrenaline is kicking up, or my anxiety is running hot), so that I can control what -if any- bad things do happen. Self control? Isn’t one decision. It’s a series of decisions, made looooooong before it’s needed/necessary. It starts with assuming responsibility for my actions no matter how badly provoked (including if the law would NOT find me guilty, and find my reaction right in line with the provocation, which does happen. But I’m still not going to put my faith in some court. What I do? Is on me. I’m the one who has to live with the consequences of my actions. Whether the law finds them reasonable or not.). Then it continues with practicing how I WANT to respond to any given situation. Training in the discipline necessary FOR self control. All long before someone is holding a knife or gun to someone I love. Which is my upper limit for self control,p. I’ve BEEN in that situation, and if I can remain in control of myself then? I can remain in control of myself with the punk ass bitch at work who is trying to give me a hard time. They’re sand in my shoe. They may piss me off, I’m the one in control of this situation, not them.

PTSD? f*cks with self control. It sends random EMERGENCY! messages over bullshit situations, day in and day out. It’s exhausting, and annoying, and demoralizing. But one of the upsides? IS the opportunity to practice yanking self control back. (Plus, hey! A dozen cardio workouts a day! All without getting off my ass! :facepalm: ) When your body just kicks over into life or death mode over nothing ? :banghead: It really is infuriating, not being able to simply lean back and trust your instincts, but having to manually sort through what’s going on and the right way to deal with it. But it can be done. And in the meantime? More practice.
 
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Thank you, Friday. That was a great help. I really appreciate your experience and knowledge on the subject.

This forum is the first place that has made me feel comfortable talking openly about this subject (other than family). The therapist made me feel like it wasn't okay to talk about there. Then where can you talk about it?
 
I've been reading Heller's Healing Developmental Trauma and in the section on autonomy, he talks about how those who struggle with autonomy have the mentality that everything is either submit or rebel, or lose your integrity or fight. But he thought that these were false dichotomies. His solution was to focus less on what the other person is putting upon you, and focusing more on exploring what the perciever is feeling and experiencing, and perhaps projecting on the situation. When one feels self-sufficient, they don't necessarily get bothered by what other people say and do even if they are trying to be insulting or mean. And I don't think someone being a moron has to constitute an emergency unless it's framed that way.

Sorry if this doesn't apply to you. But I just read this section and wondered if there was anything in it that would be helpful to you.
 
They try and up the ante when I ignore them, increasing their misbehavior to unacceptable levels that shouldn't be ignored. I won't do the 'Fight' again if I can help it

Bullying is often done to provoke, intimidate and to control. If you have a case pending, then play ‘Gray Rock‘ which is a method found on the net for dealing with psychopaths or such.

Insofar as PTSD’s instantaneous jump from zero to thousand jolts in nanoseconds?, ( for me ) those etched pathways won’t ever go away. However, I have worked hard on slowing down the overkill throughout my years, by practicing strategic tactics, neutral moves or sentences beforehand. I come here and post as you did to ask input- which really helps.

Many levels of ignorance can be ignored if beneficial to your sanity. As well, walking away, intact from an unnecessary battle or fight is a solid rule of thumb. When you are ready (or perhaps when the case is over) I am sure that you will find your balance as well as your voice.
 
How do you calmly inform an idiot that they are setting your agent orange off and would they please stop?
Unfortunately, in the real world, you simply (and this means all of us really) cannot stop stupidity and aggression unless it is criminal matter.

I do not know if this helps or not but recently I came to this conclusion as part of my recovery.
When or if I am triggered by my husband, I lose all consciousness and go back to that unknown time and place where the trigger happened and I have to consciously brace myself (most of the time) so I can distinguish what alerted my emotions. Is it my husband in the here and now or something he said or did poked a wound from the past? and I can usually remove myself and or if still heated, ask time to reconsider this matter while acknowledging in my body and verbally to him he is triggering me right now. This is a safe space with a safe person (he knows this side of me as I articulated to him numerous times without in the moment of heat) so I practice this side of me with him. It has been a great thing for me at work and other places because I know my two sides to this: the real here and now, and the past trigger happy and scary part so I know and learned how to hold my sword sort of. I can cool off my internals while facing aggression. I learned this as an adult and consciously and know when I call that side of me to the rescue! I wanted to add that even though writing this out, it seems long and calculated, in reality this is beyond split second decision making.

I wonder if you have a safe person that you can truly practice how to express your negative or hard feelings (we all have them) so you can learn how to cool the internal inferno when you are under attack or deeply being triggered by a foe. It is a skill. It is something a lot of people learn from their parents during loving and joyful childhood development. As an adult it is harder to learn because we want to believe we are in control and know how to handle things blahh but as you can attest and I know from experience - being dysregulated when confronted is a real fear. It is the fear of losing yourself in to the conflict you need to learn. or sometimes as an adult, we think others should stop triggering us but we also know that aint gonna happened. Trigger does not discriminate.

I forgot to add for emphasis, we all learned how to face aggression with poker face as children of abuse. You could not fight then and were helpless but today, you are not that child but you have that skill of looking at aggression and going yeah! what you gonna do to me? with smirk on your face if you want (I do not recommend) and go. YOu can always smirk inside knowing they could not rattle you. I can almost tell you, if you look at them and (take fear out of your eyes), they will get bored and move on or feel like wow! that person I cannot f*ck with her anymore...you have that power inside of you! I hope you find it.

Just wondering
 
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If I could just control that Fight or Flight trauma symptom, I think I could engage problems with reasonable tone and confidence.
This sums it up... The holy grail of PTSD survivors. I have not found it yet, but it certainly helped to know why I would go Tiger. In my brain, any threat gets amplified because of my past. I call it going nuclear...
I honestly hate this part of myself. It’s very difficult for me to accept that there is something I can’t control to this extent and can do so much damage so quickly.
If you have PTSD, you may perceive past threats in addition to whatever BS is thrown at you. I know now that I’m reacting to more than what is currently going on.
I want to have better control so badly. I’ve done it more often than not, when someone is being a jerk and I am able to quietly put them in their place. But it’s not always the case. And I worry about flying off at work and in other situations that may affect my livelihood, for example. It’s a big concern and I wonder how others have dealt with it...
 
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