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[Dana1010]

sometimes it hold out an open hand

And sometimes a vicious beast bites it off.

 

[Deleted member 12723]

Dana so true, sad and tragic but true.

 

[Deleted member 34535]

Justmehere, I think it would have been better to say, "In my opinion, I think this is scapegoating." Because it is just that and only that, solely your opinion. When you have sub-human individuals that are willing to fill a cage with people and lower them into the water and drown them, extending the hand of love won't work very well. When you have individuals who burn people alive, a hand of love won't work very well. When you have sub humans that behead people and show it to the whole world, a hand of love won't work very well. When you have sub humans that drive a truck into a crowd of people enjoying a holiday, and they mow down women and children and others leaving the street full of blood and tissue, A hand of love won't work very well. There is only one way to deal with hideous evil, kill it ASAP.

 

[Dana1010]

I agree that crying about scapegoating is a little trivial at this stage. Sorry to say it, but there's never going to be a flawless solution to a problem like this. Hard problems get hard solutions.

 

[Justmehere]

Justmehere, I think it would have been better to say, "In my opinion, I think this is scapegoating."

I think what is scapegoating? I was not actually trying to declare any particular action that anyone was describing or taking to actually be scapegoating - except one thing: tests of theology for US citizens and residents. Yeah, I don't support that. Nor does the laws and constitution of my country, the US.

If others are in support of implementing Gingrich's tests of theology for US citizens as a reaction to and a means to prevent attacks like this, you all are entitled to your opinion that this is a good idea and it would be great to better understand why this will help prevent future attacks. I don't see how it could do that. I don't support it. I do believe it is a erroneous policy that is scapegoating. (opinion.) It is a policy that is against the law and the constitution of my country. (fact) I don't think it's time to throw out those laws and our constitution. (opinion)

The trend of humans who are scared and/or in pain to find a scapegoat is something to avoid. (opinion) It's a very common thing that happens throughout history. (fact) It is something I hope people are mindful of as we figure out what to do about the future. (opinion.)

And I think everyone here can sort out what they think is fact and opinion for themselves from here forward, and I welcome differing opinions and more info on the facts by all. :)

I didn't say we should hold out an open hand of love to evil who would bite it off or to terrorists or ISIS or killers or villains. That's not what the people of Nice have appeared to do.

My goal was to express my concern that scapegoating would occur, a singular policy that I think is an example of it, that I don't support tests of theology for all people of a major religion in the US, how I am inspired by the people of Nice.

Read about what the people of Nice did. Take out all the assumptions of what I could be saying about this or that political policy when I mention them and what they did to care for one another. Read what the people did when they got scared. They didn't go out and welcome a killer into their homes, nor did I call for people to do that, nor did I call for anyone else to open out their own hand in love to anyone. I stated what I hoped to do in light of the tendency of people to scapegoat others when they get scared. I think it's amazing they tried to help each other after this horrible act of violence by an extremist. To be clear, I do think what he did was awful and evil.

I'm still inspired by the people of Nice in the face of his horrible act.

 

[Deleted member 34535]

If you are a U.S. Citizen, naturally you have all of the rights of a U.S. Citizen. If you are here illegally, you do not. If there is evidence that you belong to an ideology that wishes harm to all U.S. citizens, you do not belong in the United States of America. For to be here and witness all that you have disdain for on a daily basis would only be harmful for you and your view of how every person in the world should be living their life. And for such a person as this, I would provide free transportation to an area of the world where they could live among others who believe as they do.

 

[Dana1010]

tests of theology for US citizens and residents. Yeah, I don't support that. Nor does the laws and constitution of my country, the US.

But what if your "theology" explicitly calls for the murder of nonbelievers and other crimes? What if a bunch of rapists decided that God said, "Be fruitful and multiply," and their interpretation of this is to procreate by any means necessary? They've formed a new sect around this and are raping people in the streets everyday. Can we not expel the adherents to this religion even as they're doing massive damage, because religious freedom is in the constitution? Where do you draw the line? Anyone can do anything and call it religion. A constitution isn't a suicide pact.

 

[joeylittle]

you are a U.S. Citizen, naturally you have all of the rights of a U.S. Citizen. If you are here illegally, you do not. If there is evidence that you belong to an ideology that wishes harm to all U.S. citizens, you do not belong in the United States of America.

What about the US citizens who belong to an ideology that wishes harm against US Citizens? (Westboro Baptist Church, I'm looking at you).

But what if your "theology" explicitly calls for the murder of nonbelievers and other crimes?

I would not be surprised to find that we have many born-and-bred-in-the-USA citizens who want to see other US citizens dead because of their differing beliefs. Perhaps, more than there are immigrant (naturalized or no) threats.

Every time I read a US citizen arguing for shutting borders/kicking out the 'undesirables', I think about all the hate crime that is purely "American" vs "American" (meaning, fourth, fifth, sixth generation immigrants, mostly) - and it ends up sounding like hypocrisy to me.

My opinion, that's all. Everyone's entitled to one.

 

[hodge]

What's up with Westboro Baptist Church, Joey? Just curious. Homegrown terrorism?

I fear you are right about some Americans. Well, we've seen it come to pass, most recently in Dallas.

This is a scary time to be alive. I used to think I was lucky about when I was born. MLK, the great advances in the 60s, along with, yes, a lot of violence as well, tragically. But things seemed to get a bit better for awhile. Lately, everything seems to be going off the rails. Some people are just going totally nuts and being violent.

I ask the question, what can we all do about this? How do we get together and somehow create a better environment in which these violent people cannot do these things? Ah, yeah, I know, naive question. Violent people will find a way in a free society.

But my question still stands: what can we do?

 

[hodge]

Hmm, well one thing I can think of is to implore our congresspeople to pass reasonable gun control laws. There is absolutely no reason why anyone other than cops and military should have automatic weapons. I have friends out here who have guns to scare away coyotes who will abduct small pets. That is totally reasonable for country people to have guns for that. But no one needs a gun that can fire tons of rounds per second except for military and cops. And no one should be able to buy a gun if they are on the no-fly list. I know there's a huge black market in guns in this country and God help anyone who tries to break it. But, jeez, somehow, we have to try, right? Ah, if I had another life without PTSD, I would become a cop and that would be my mission.

Eh, sorry for going off topic.

 

[Dana1010]

What about the US citizens who belong to an ideology that wishes harm against US Citizens?

The operative word here is "wishes." They're not actually doing it, at least not on the level of the Jihadists.

Hmm, well one thing I can think of is to implore our congresspeople to pass reasonable gun control laws.

This has to be the height of irony after last night's attack.

 

[hodge]

Would anyone's life have been saved if ordinary citizens had guns? The police shot that driver dead. And it took them about 2 km to do so. Tragic, but sorry, I am not a fan of vigilante justice.