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Getting Too Near...

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Okay, but time is not really being given to me here. He made need time etc to get it... but what about me? I think I need to focus on what I need instead of everything that is expected of me. Everybody is so adamant of "not avoiding" but nobody is asking me what I actually need, and that is... to feel safe!
 
I think you hit on it on post #33.

It is up to you to use your tools to self affirm a sense of safety and allow the time necessary to effect a change that allows for you and both the other parties to be in the same space and all three of you to adjust as necessary to be able to continue to receive the benefit of the group.

Your rational mind knows, surely, that this situation could crop up almost anywhere. At a job, at a class, as you run errands... the benefit of working through this in the group that you are in is that it's about as safe a situation as it ever gets.
 
I think you have known me long enough to know that I have a habit of putting myself through uncomfortable situations and push through the anxiety for my long term benefit on a fairly regular basis.

"Everybody being adamant" is one of two things for me: It is a cue for me to pause, reflect and listen more openly to the other perspectives of the people involved, or it is black and white thinking that I am using to avoid something.

You can choose to resolve the problem at hand in a way that will allow the other two individuals to be in your space. Sometimes weighing out the advantages and potential consequences pushes me to do the more uncomfortable thing. Or not.

It is though, when I have to deal with uncomfortable situations myself, all about me. Most of the time I can keep my eye on the prize, sometimes I can't. Safety is a big one for me that I have been normalizing for a long time.

What things can you do or core beliefs need to be redefined in order for you to be able to become tolerant of low level risk but also develop the ability to set and consistently communicate boundaries?
 
"Everybody being adamant," is actually a cue for me to notice that I am thinking more about what people are saying to me, than practicing awareness and asking myself what I need in the moment. This is something my therapist is telling me I need to practice, and I actually started writing everyday, i.e. "how do I feel? and what do I need?" Because this normally goes unnoticed. If safety is something that you have been normalizing, great for you. For me, after two years of PTSD, I deal with constant anxiety which gets out of hand in situations like these, and feeling is safe is definetly not normal for me.

I always consider what people to say to me, and take it very seriously. So seriously, as mentioned, that I forget to ask myself what my own opinion is. I consider my obligations much more than anyone can realize, especially most people who go to the day center.

And I think all I am saying is that there is no simple solution, like "never avoid" or "just set your boundaries." Thinking this way, is actually in my opinion, thinking in black and white. Social workers and therapist tend to do this, because they are mostly doing and acting on what they learned in text books. Its just ignorance to some point because at times they are not really dealing with the person in front of them. In my opinion, there are fine subtleties that need to be addressed, or I am doing nobody a favor, let alone my own self, a by ignoring them. I can't avoid the fact that I am so sensitive. All my life, I thought there is something wrong with me for being the way I am, but I really can't change that. It is triggering when I am confronted with this part of me, because I felt deeply and completely responsible and guilty for not being able to satisfy my ex for many years and I still tried so hard to do so. That's how deep it goes.

What things can you do or core beliefs need to be redefined in order for you to be able to become tolerant of low level risk but also develop the ability to set and consistently communicate boundaries?

What stands out to me in this sentence "being able to to become tolerant of low level risk." Being willing or able to tolerate is the big question for me.
 
Forgot the third possibility which would be putting others in front or ahead of your own needs. Yes I can get that and thanks for comment. I forget that pretty easily because I am not a mother or have never been a parent. You are so there is a third dimension to this that I did over look. I am taking the hard line approach with myself most all of the time, my PTSD, my problem. That is not, something for everybody.
 
Hi nadia, just wanted to say that at one time I tackled my condition very aggressively. It was borne out of ignorance of the physiological dysfunction I couldnt control. That ignorance only assisted the extreme level of self reproach I lived under which was always helpfully entrenched by societys wilfull denial of ptsd and its consequences; especially when its caused by something as unpalatable as sexual violence.

I forced myself into many activities which was essentially like repeatedly throwing myself against an electrified fence. I desperately believed that if I flung myself harder and harder eventually I would crash through to the other side and all its effects would be over.

It was driven by blame and shame and fear of actually feeling the devastation I felt.

Being compassionate to your needs is not the same as passivity. Accepting that your needs have fundamentally changed is not equal to defeat.

Avoidance is not healthy obviously but avoiding stuff that bad for you isnt. The thing is, if like a pigeon testing an electric fence you keep trying things that zap you, you end up in an ever decreasing world.

Respect your needs and allow yourself to believe they are valid and worthy of being met.

Good luck.
 
I forced myself into many activities which was essentially like repeatedly throwing myself against an electrified fence. I desperately believed that if I flung myself harder and harder eventually I would crash through to the other side and all its effects would be over..

Avoidance is not healthy obviously but avoiding stuff that bad for you isnt. The thing is, if like a pigeon testing an electric fence you keep trying things that zap you, you end up in an ever decreasing world..

Personally it is and was an error to compare mental/emotional thoughts and feelings with a truly life threatening situation. The difference between throwing myself against an electrified fence and throwing myself into stressful life situations is the fact that the former would seriously physically injure or kill me while the latter may risk anguish/stress/shame/blame/guilt/fear or even depression. But thoughts and feelings are my own and learning how to work through or around them creates new experiences to over-write the anxiety producing or trauma related ones and are survivable. Not easy, but doable. Not stress free, but learning how to manage with the disorder is more beneficial in the long term than accommodations.

I don't expect that it will be over one day, I expect though to be able to navigate more reliably in the world as it is and to develop tools and skills that will assist me in being able to go where I want to go, do what I want to do, and manage the anxiety by making new neuro pathways, creating new habits and behaviors that better serve me. I am less reactive and when I am reactive, I rebound much faster often skipping the depressive cycling.

One of the things that led me to this forum was Anthony's approach to this stuff and I have benefited from a lot of his opinion on these things.

The analogy of the pigeon testing an electric fence is backwards. If I keep trying things that zap me, I learn, adapt, and repeat the things that work and avoid the things that don't. What I don't do is avoid all fences. It is an irrational assumption that all fences are electrified and only by honing risk assessment and threat assessment skills can I learn how to navigate in a world where some fences are electrified.

To avoid fences (being a pigeon), increases the has the unintended consequence of perhaps limiting my ability to sustain myself as I look for food and watch for real threats to my survival. Sure there are trees and I can have a preference for trees, but if I find myself in a locale that does not have alot of them or there is much competition for them I may need to use a fence.

Further, I also do not give preference to safety so much so that I lose the potential benefit of resting on a fence if it is more generally beneficial for me to do so.

Assessing the situation is also key because there may be times when what I desire to gain is worth the risk. For instance the longer term benefit of Nadia's group may be worth more to her personally than abandoning the group. Part of the process is to see the goal or want/need/desire and decide if the shorter term risk or emotional distress or discomfort is worth the longer term benefit.

Accommodation of unhelpful thoughts and feelings got me a smaller and smaller world and became a very isolated and agoraphobic place. It was more accurate risk assessment and rational thinking that brought me back out of my home and has enabled me to move through my day to day activities with reduced fear/stress/anxiety.
 
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Though this is a discussion thread, this is Nadia's thread so I'm out of the discussion at this point.

Nadia, I know you'll do what is best for you and hope you can navigate through this situation with minimum reactivity and long term beneficial results.
 
There is something to say about forcing stress upon you, when there are probably more gentle ways. I never really thought of abandoning the day center either. It has done loads of good for me, and I actually see myself in the future at this organisation maybe helping others as well.

Thanks for trusting in me Alba.

And thank you Echo and Springer. I appreciate what you have to say a lot. I think I understand the fence analogy. And the way I see it, there is no point of ramming yourself, your body, into any structure, let alone an electrified one. If it is not electrified and its possible to climb, okay, but you may scrape yourself. If you can go around, super, why climb a fence if you can use the door? Or even walk hundreds of miles until you get to the bridge... okay, you might get tired, but its good exercise...but zapping yourself over and over again... well my body and nerves has endured so much stress already, then I feel it is not good for me to endure anymore. This is the problem with tolerating problems.

Again, it is not avoiding the fence altogether, and not avoiding the goal on the other side, its more like... wait a second, calm down, assess the situation fully here, where do I really want to go, and are there any other possibilities of getting there?

I am going to go out of town tomorrow to buy a soapstone so I can finally carve my spirit animal to protect me, a black puma. :D My next scheduled day at the day center is on Friday. My support said that this guy, Ronald, is really really very mentally ill, and has a lot of problems. It is clear I dont have this problem with other males in the group, and my social worker said that it would make anyone feel uncomfortable the way he has been treating me... he has also touched me randomly etc. so I am not imagining things... and if somebody is having power over you, than it is natural to want to flee.

I am thinking of taking my puma, and showing it to Ronald somehow. Maybe he will understand this more playful boundary. Maybe I can feel my boundaries to him, if I try to relate to him in a more gentle way. Like, look I can smile, and I don't hate you, but I have the puma next to me, and she hates it when somebody gets too close to me, so watch out.

Yeah, but my anxiety went haywire these last few days, so I decided to take it easy and feel how it is for me if and when I go back. I dont have to do anything I don't want to do.
 
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