Grooming? Or...what...?

[mamachick]

Once graduated from college, should not need high school friends, but it happens often. Several female teachers and counselors have done so as well.
In my local news, a 42 yr old city police officer also head of security at private school where his daughter attends, got sexually involved with a 17 yr old female student. Parents hired attorney who told officer to not contact girl, resign from both jobs, and other condition. He did resign but continued contact. Crap hit fan....girl turned on parents, now estranged from parents, and is now engaged to 43 yr old cop (she has turned 18). He is charged with issue of trust with minor.

 

[barefoot]

Maybe flirting isn't really the right word... I'm not sure. Sorry...I don't really know what I mean.

It didn't ever feel creepy. Another teacher, was sleazy - he had a reputation for being a sleaze and it was a well-known thing that you wouldn't have wanted to find yourself trapped alone in a classroom with him. He was creepy. This other one wasn't creepy. He didn't feel sleazy.

The only thing that ever felt embarrassing was when he would say things in front of other younger kids that would make me cringe because it sort of sounded like there was something going on between us when there wasn't.

And I felt embarrassed when he was in my hotel bedroom and I was in my pjs because it was cold and my pjs were made of a kind of clingy material and I felt a bit mortified about what he could see.

Otherwise though, I liked him. And I liked that I felt a bit special and important - that I got invited into his office and he made me tea and talked to me about his family. And I'm now excruciatingly aware of how pathetic that sounds...

 

[Suzetig]

It didn't ever feel creepy. ha

It often doesn't, if it felt creepy you would be more likely to notice it and back off. Grooming is about building a relationship that looks and feels "normal". It's a hard thing to get your head round because it so often looks like kindness. Perpetrators bank on you being vulnerable, wanting their care and enjoying the attention and specialness of the relationship. It's not pathetic to respond to something designed to elicit a response, if you know what I mean.

I was groomed at 14 by someone 20 years older than me At the time it felt like he was being kind, a bit flirty, and that I was special to him but it was very wrong and in my case I was abused by him for 4 years - I consented each step of the way because he did his job very well. At no time did I feel he was being abusive, it wasn't until adulthood I could see how damaging it actually was. One of the things I struggle with is figuring out how I could be traumatised by something I wanted and agreed to.

It's a complete mind f*ck.

 

[barefoot]

Actually, now I'm thinking, I'm remembering...years later, a female friend of mine (who was also my teacher when I was at school - blimey, I clearly went to the school of blurred boundaries!) told me that this teacher had left. He'd sort of "been retired". i.e. He was paid off to leave quickly. I think he had some health issues by that point, but my friend said something about he'd become a bit of a loose canon and was acting strangely with kids, almost like he wanted to get into trouble.

And she asked me if anything had ever happened with me and him. And I said no. Because that's what I believed.

So, now I'm thinking, maybe he had that plan all along...and I was maybe supposed to do that? Maybe I was supposed to complain so that he got paid off even sooner? So, sex wasn't the intention because sex wasn't the issue/what he wanted. What he wanted was early retirement and a nice pay off. Only he didn't get that from me because I was too stupid to realise that this wasn't a straightforward thing of us both liking having conversations with each other.

I can't work out if I'm being very stupid about someone who was doing something wrong or if I'm blowing something that was fine completely out of proportion. I feel very confused now about this whole thing.

 

[barefoot]

In the uk the teacher would be considered to have breached their duty of trust and would be in trouble

I think this is what my friend - who I mentioned this recently to - couldn't get her head around. That, an an ex-teacher who did have appropriate boundaries with pupils, I didn't see that there was anything wrong with this. I know without any doubt that I would never, ever have done the things he did with me, with a student of mine. And yet...I have never thought it was particularly odd, let alone that it was actually wrong and that he could have lost his job/been arrested/whatever.

As you say though, I guess it is designed to be a head f*ck...

 

[barefoot]

I don't think I can "like" more recent comments in this thread because I'm actually finding it hard to read/take in what you're all telling me. But I do appreciate the input...it just feels impossible to "like"!

 

[joeylittle]

The only physical contact that ever took place was that he once kissed me on the mouth (a very brief peck goodnight, nothing more sexual) when he was (briefly!) in my bedroom on a school trip. And at that point, he also sort of stroked my side and commented on how nice my PJs felt. And then he left.

You were being groomed, and then - for whatever reason - he stopped.

It was absolutely inappropriate.

I know what you mean, though. There are things I look back on where I was just naive to the real possibility of danger. Doesn't mean the danger wasn't there.

Sometimes you can't see it til you have some time and distance. Don't be hard on yourself about it.

And whatever he was doing doesn't change or negate that you did get positive things out of the connection. Those are real. There was just stuff going on in the background that you couldn't see.

 

[barefoot]

And whatever he was doing doesn't change or negate that you did get positive things out of the connection. Those are real.

I'm not sure about this though. I suppose what I got out of it at the time was feeling important/special/chosen. And I thought that was because he liked me/I was interesting etc. And now it seems that that isn't what was going on or what it was about. So, those things weren't real. Because it was a lie.

 

[joeylittle]

I hear what you are saying @barefoot - but you are making it be black and white, when it's not. It isn't all-real or all-false, I don't think.

To know that, you'd need to talk to him. But my bet would be that many levels of your interaction were genuine for him. And then, there was a level that was manipulative. It could have been conscious or unconscious.

Different example - I know teachers who let their students turn them into gurus, gods. They cultivate it. They are so addicted to the feeling of being "the special teacher". And it often creates problematic situations.

They are not aware of it - at all - until suddenly confronted with something that shows them either their own motives, or the student's overdependence.

Does this make sense? I'm not trying to prove he wasn't manipulative. Only that it's not as black and white as all real/all fake.

 

[Abstract]

Sometimes that type of interest in someone is part of it for these people. It doesn't mean he wasn't interested in you in that way. I sincerely doubt setting up an early retirement plan was the intention. No one sane would go down that road for that reason. Until you take the other child and him being kicked out you could argue that there was a possibility he was trying to fix his pathetic life with interaction with you whilst trying to stop it going further. Even though we here don;t believe that. Add the exit in and I don't really think you can doubt his mo. Obvious (not hidden) behaviour can indicate all sorts of things. Usually not the need to be caught though.

Its normal you didn't realise what was happening though. Why would you as a child and especially if he was doing a good job of it.

 

[barefoot]

@joeylittle Yes, I see what you mean. I think I'm maybe thinking in black/white terms as I feel shaken by this whole thing and very confused. So I kind of want to just reduce it to terms of "was it ok or not ok?" If it wasn't really ok but he probably did still like me/found me interesting etc, that feels less clear and more confusing. Dealing with absolutes would feel easier in some way, I think. Well...would feel like there was more clarity.

 

[barefoot]

I sincerely doubt setting up an early retirement plan was the intention. No one sane would go down that road for that reason.

My friend - who still worked there at the time when he left - said it was all very scandalous and his behaviour around some students had become more brazen/reckless and some complaints had been made. I can't remember now exactly what she said but there was definitely something about he and his wife sort of hatching a plan to get him out of teaching and to get some money. He was the headteacher and it was over 20 years ago....it wasn't that uncommon then, I don't think, for "dodgy" staff to get referenced out and for it to be swept under the carpet. It wouldn't/couldn't happen like that so easily now, I don't think.

Its normal you didn't realise what was happening though. Why would you as a child

I suppose not. Though I was 17, not super-young.