News Hippocampal Volume And Resilience In Posttramatic Stress Disorder

[Girl3]

Responsible researchers aren't looking for a single picture - just like a CT scan for appendicitis doesn't look for a single visual - it is a combination of history, objective findings, and now certain brain imaging techniques that may help diagnose people more accurately. Also, the newest brain scans combined with innovative medical therapy may unlock treatments that change the hormonal/neurochemical milieu in a way that is lasting and without tremendous side effects. One of the studies in which I'll participate early next year looks at corticotropin releasing factor inhibition.

The brain can regenerate and reassign tasks to areas that normally don't do those tasks. I have a close relative who had an infection in her brain that left her unintelligible and unable to walk or feed herself. Six years later, she can feed herself, ambulates with some assistance, can carry on a phone conversation. The parts of her brain that were destroyed didn't grow back, but the parts that took over have generated new interconncections.

 

[Jacquie]

Serotonin does seem to be involved at several levels. Serotonin/melatonin...sunlight, hypothalamus, endocrine system....all related to depression type symptoms. And circadian rhythms (sleep)

It was the fact I 'could not' stay outside (in the light) coupled with my knowledge of circadian rhythms and that this wasnt even in the ball park, that finally got someone to nail this down.

The hipocampus IS indicated......vision. Anyone else here had their eyes suddenly (very suddenly) go bad on you?

The fact that someone here had their vision come back helps me live in hope. But while 'active' and all those systems being interlinked, and in many ways dependent on each other, there has to be a connection.

The adrenal glands and fight or flight do keep us awake and alert. I dont know if serotonin would 'counter' the adrenalin (like a sleeping pill) because it more to do with sleep 'patterns' as a regulator. But I do know that without enough both serotonin and sunlight (essential) that the 'signals' to sleep and wake arent working right, and the onset of depression is fairly rapid.

I believe the latest studies regarding the hippocampus (and size) is in relation to why some people suffer trauma shock and others do not, given the same set of circumstances. And it appears it MIGHT be that people with the smaller hippocampus MIGHT be more susceptible to trauma reactions. But we also know the brain construction and function of say an empath or an artist, is somewhat different to a straight line thinker.

I came at this thing from the physiological perspective. Trying to understand whats going on physically, and what happened physically, has helped me make some decisions and take some actions (conscious ones) which are now bearing fruit.

Just as the one example. If we isolate (psychological) we stay in the house and we dont get sunlight (physiological) which then brings on depression (seen as psychological but just as much physiological). I believe its both. The one needs the other. I believe the body is an amazing self correcting, self balancing thing, if given the conditions it needs to do that.

I'm with the guy from Israel. I was in the top 5%. Easily. Then I was losing my own shoes and couldnt do simple maths. Could recall things (daily things). Couldnt hold something in my mind, and temporarily get distracted then be able to pull it back up. It simply WASNT THERE! Gone!

I am retraining. I am doing cognitive skills training every day and seeing improvements. Its rebuilding NEURONS. Physical matter. I am forcing the brain to get those cells dividing and create the environment I am demanding of it

I'm not even at 50% yet (let alone back up the top 5) and it would probably take me another 50 years to get there and I wont be around then. But I know that brains arent STATIC..they change. And I am reshaping mine. Not just my emotions and responses. My physical organ......the brain.

You will find some previously very intelligent people here who are all having the same problem. Their ability to learn and RETAIN and RECALL,,,,,,is screwed. Its not the whole brain, it seemed in my own case to only be parts of it. But without those parts the rest of the parts that did work couldnt do too much either.

Problem solving was fine
Swapping and retaining wasnt even on the chart (couldnt do it at all)
Flexibility of 'thinking' was ok but once you threw in flexible 'noticing' I was screwed
Attention almost didnt exist
Speed? A snail on valium could have done better. I just COULD NOT process once speed was involved
Long memory however was still in the high range the same as problem solving

But I couldnt hear notes in music
Couldnt taste food or drink
My sense of smell and touch was also diminished
I jumped when something 'startled me' but my hearing was not the best
My eyes packed it in, I can hardly see a thing

Psychological? No way.

When I was in the thick of the worst of it and didnt know what was going on (pre-diagnosis) I kept saying its like having alzheimers! I am doing the stupidest things. Had to write notes to myself and stick them on the bathroom mirror.

But they have just found that people with depression, do show signs of shrinking hippocampus AFTER they have depression. And the aging show signs of shrinkage as well, and those with shrinkage seem to be more likely to progress to alzheimers. But we also know cognitive skills decrease if they arent used and exercised. There has to be a relationship between the hippocampus and cognitive skills. Somewhere.

 

[anthony]

Anyone asking what PTSD is, cannot give any type of answer, or even guess... because unless you happen to be as educated and involved in this as what the current leading experts in the world are... which I have not noticed their names here as users... then have cannot presently say what PTSD exactly is.

They know its not the limbic system, and all current neuroscience keeps leading them to the pre-frontal cortex. What within that area of the brain, they DO NOT know.

Neuroscience tells us today that the brain has plasticity, being the new word of the decade in neuroscience and medicine, meaning the brain is malleable and able to regrow new cells after others die, which disproves original theories that once a brain cell dies, that's it, you will never get it back... which is proven untrue, and your brain can regrow new cells, hence plasticity.

This means, anything done to the brain can be undone... problem is, they still don't know how exactly.

Pharmaceutical companies will try and do it with a pill, because that's their industry.

Mental health will try and do it with a psychoanalytical treatment approach, because that's their industry.

Medicine will try and do it with some type of medical procedure, because that's their industry.

Which industry wins the race, we'll all yet have to wait and see.

What is known is that all areas of the brain connect to every other area, so any breakdown or disregulation in one area can cause knock on effects, ie. if PTSD is within the pre-frontal cortex, then we know this is the central processor to all other system nearly, at this time... they could be completely wrong and find something different in the future.

To date... PTSD is incurable, but treatable. That means, you cannot completely remove it, ie. cure, but you can treat it so that it disappears. The reason curable is not used, is because one PTSD has formed, they know with certainly that you are then susceptible to the same result when exposed to another traumatic event, hence, it may only take one event or a combination of smaller events to produce the same result again, thus you are back to treatment for symptoms.

This is the only reason the word curable is not used, because PTSD cannot be cured once you have it, but that does not mean it cannot be completely removed from your daily life.

 

[Jacquie]

Couldnt agree more on the various industries all pushing their own carts.

 

[NutritionNerd]

Because PTSD cannot be cured once you have it,

That is not a fact - how can you state that something cannot be cured when we don't even know what it's mechanisms are?

And I don't automatically bow to so called Experts. They can be renowned as all heck and still not have a clue. If you've read a lot of scientific papers from a range of dates on a particular subject you see researchers glibly stating as fact things which which you already know later research has proven wrong. That gives you a very different perspective on science. It is their belief that they know certain things as fact that blocks us from truly advancing. Kind of like the neuroplasticity issue. Because they start with assumptions that are wrong they don't even ask the right questions.

While I agree with you about the problems with profit based Health Science, I think that it is possible that there won't ever be a magic bullet cure and that a combination of techniques is needed in order to be rid of all the symptoms. I use a lot of different viewpoints in trying to understand reality. I see each of the industries as having a different language, set of assumptions, and methods which colors their viewpoint. So you take them with a grain of salt knowing that none of them has a complete picture - and the only way to get one is by trying to integrate the ideas from many viewpoints. When I stopped trying to figure out who was right but took it that they are all right to some degree within their specific universes.

Some of the most helpful stuff for me has come from from spirituality or new age thinking. Stuff that sounded "woo woo" until I tried it. I can often translate the mechanisms to one or another of the viewpoints. An example is the One Point technique my therapist taught me which basically involves relaxing your belly (the place from which martial arts teaches as central to defensive action). It worked to a degree the first time I tried it. Now noticing when I am tensing up there and consciously relaxing is a part of my day to day life. As I read more about the mechanisms in stress and PTSD I suspect that it works because it is sending a signal to the ANS that you are feeling safe, thereby calming down the flight or fight chemical cascade.

 

[anthony]

NN.... facts do change, yes, but right now, the facts are very clear, PTSD has no cure, it can only be treated. Until that fact changes, if it changes, in the future, then we use current fact, not personal opinion or beliefs on what to disseminate.

Its like those who continue to perpetuate CPTSD as a diagnosis, when factually, there is no such thing as a CPTSD diagnosis, nor does an actual diagnostic criteria even exist for anyone within the field to tell a client they have CPTSD. The APA have ruled a final decision, CPTSD will not be included in the DSM V as they found it to be inconclusive to accurately cover complex trauma, as those presenting with complex trauma actually fit such a diverse range of cormorbid disorders, they could not possibly, nor accurately, bring all such possibilities into one diagnosis and call it valid. Hence, the decision was made, PTSD + comorbid disorders is how complex trauma will be diagnosed, being the most accurate for the client. This is fact, and this fact may change in the future, however; right now, its fact.

Until factually PTSD can be classified as curable, not just treatable, this forum tells the truth without ambiguity or bias, and whilst experts aren't always right, they are smarter and more knowledgable than you or I in this area. Unless you become one of these global leading experts, ie. Foe, Rosen, Frueh, Hembree, Rothbaum, Van Der Kolk, Courtois, Ford, Keane, Cloitre and the list goes on... then neither you or I have the right to tell someone they can be cured of something that is not currently factual.

SGB may be a cure for PTSD... but right now, its not, as its still within trial stages. To date, SGB is the closest thing that is actually looking to have the most promise with treating PTSD symptoms in a single solution.

NN... I agree with much of what you say, however; personal opinions do not dictate a right to any of us to disseminate something to vulnerable persons that is not 'currently' factual. As fact changes, this forums information changes.

This forum used to say PTSD was a chemical imbalance, as that is what fact dictated at the time. Neuroimaging has proven this incorrect, thus its not longer stated here, because its no longer factual. Medicine used to say it was all in the hippocampus... neuroimaging has proved that wrong, thus this forums attitude and information has changed.

That is how this forum works... nothing more, nothing less... but we don't get to make stuff up or take a view that is untrue at this time.

 

[Girl3]

Well said Anthony. As a person who has PTSD and a host of comorbid disorder as well as being a physician, former academician with research in an entirely unrelated field and former advisor to two well known medical device companies there are several things that also need to be mentioned.

Science is incremental. An idea here may blossom into a useful drug someplace else. Likewise, a seemingly brilliant idea goes into preproduction only to be shot down by a paid advisor (my former role) because I could see how it wouldn't work/be dangerous/be by-passed, etc.

The people who are doing research often don't have the diseases they research. I've taken care of thousands of patients over the years that I didn't have what they had - but it didn't diminish my caring, my expertise, or my desire to learn from my patients what ever they could teach me.

And while we may not like the capitalistic system, what replaces it in communist society wasn't any better - having worked with doctors who escaped USSR, Cuba, Romania - being told what you will develop for the military, for whatever political agenda or dictator-specific disease doesn't produce great medical science in the long run.

If people aren't going to participate in medical trials whether they involve medication or psychotherapy or holistic methods, then they have to understand that studies may be canceled due to lack of enrollment or invalidated due to insufficient numbers. By the same token, if you are going to participate, read what the objectives of the study are, find out what the science is based on, see if any related studies have reported results/side-effects/problems. There are studies I have refused to participate in because I think the science upon which they were premised was lousy.

Lastly, what works for one may not work for another because we are in fact all different regardless of our diagnosis of PTSD.

 

[olaja]

The current working hypothesis for how Stablon helps with ptsd and anxiety is by regulating glutamate receptors in various regions of the brain. This makes sense to me in that ptsd can cause disregulation of metabolism by causing high circulating glucose and insulin resistance due to high circulating levels of glucocorticoids. This may only be true for the subset of PTSD sufferers who also carry genetics for metabolic syndrome.
NutritionNerd

Amazing. You may have proven the mind/body connection in my case, or, rather, how the trauma lead me to the health condition I am in now.

Also, this thread is a great discussion. I am learning so much. Thank you.

 

[NutritionNerd]

I was reading some of the studies and beginning to understand why it's so hard for scientists to get consistent results by measuring hippocampus volumes. People just don't have the same size brains to start with and each one is a little different in how much hippocampus it has. But on top of that there are genetic differences. My husband is Aspergers and I read a study about how there brain size is larger at various stages in their life. So unless they get a chance to do studies on people at various times in their life the comparison studies are going to have problems.

 

[anthony]

Exactly... hippocampus size got ruled out long ago as a possible way to measure for PTSD.

Slowly but surely, these geniuses keep coming up with better and better answers over time...