How did this go from DBT to The Secret?!

Mach123

MyPTSD Pro
He's actually good at the DBT part... when he does it.

I just spoke to the clinical director of outpatient services and she's escalating the matter to someone above her who will be sitting down with the therapist to review the content of the group. I don't know how much good this will do, or that I trust it will help or lead to anything good for me. I do plan to follow up with a letter when I have time.

She also indicated the problem will hopefully be addressed in the group as well, and I won't be named to the therapist by her or the other supervisor, but they will just tell him there are serious concerns about the amount of religious content he is bringing into group.

At first she went down the route of, "well mindfulness and meditation can sometimes hug the line with spiritual topics." I was able to validate that's different and that's not what I'm concerned about. I was able to get across that whatever patients believe and bring up, that's ok. I have no issue with that. They are not leading the group. When the therapist kicks off with the quote about prophets of a specific religion being great, and then keeps commenting about his religious beliefs souls and what he calls mystic beliefs and religious concepts as prescriptive for healing for the group.... and then also keeps commenting he wonders why the group is so quiet... "I'm concerned the therapist is lacking the insight into understanding when religion or politics is brought up, and even more, is a topic driven by the therapist As that religion being prescriptive for the patients in the group, a group of people who are mostly strangers to each other will at best get quiet. Quiet is probably the best possible response."

Her tone completely changed. She had heard of concerns before, but thought it was about the mediation and mindfulness as DBT skills... sigh,

I sent her the videos we had been watching for group time and homework where no DBT skills were mentioned, not even in the context of religious practices, but plenty about souls and salvation and death and life and etc. He sent the links to me (and the whole group) which go straight to a religious YouTube channel. Clear as day.

I commented it's about as appropriate as advertising and billing insurance for CBT when in reality we are watching 20 minute Billy Graham videos and not even discussing CBT skills and then the therapist wondering why everyone is quiet. Uh.

I even said, "Let's get real. This is a group of not mentally stable folks already struggling and desperate and he's pushing his religion on them and they are thinking uh, well my doc said I needed this... and most say they have never done DBT before. They think this is DBT. When it's not. This is an issue of trust. I feel really uncomfortable watching this happen."

The outpatient director asked me to consider talking to the therapist as a chance to practice using DBT interpersonal effectiveness skills. I said 1.) ironically we didn't cover that topic much even though we were supposed to do so 2.) I appreciate some people need more opportunity to practice handling difficult stuff like this, I don't 3,) It's really not up to me to try to have the conversation about his religion with him being used as a bait and switch with DBT. I don't want to be the girl in the group that complained about faith topics he's clearly excited about, if I go back at all. "Plus, I'm really busy today. It's up to this program to provide what you billed insurance to provide to me. it's up to you how you all will do that. It's up to me to be clear what I need and hold my boundaries. I have done this. I need not do anything further. Respectfully, it's not really my problem to solve."

She agreed.

This kind of pisses me off. Therapists screwing with trust always pisses me off. Sigh. Good day to use emotion regulation skills. Feeling grateful I have been through a DBT group before that did actual DBT and I can pull on that learning.
OMG such great writing thanks SO much. I got into “it” a little with my therapist yesterday based on your post. Clashing world views. It’s really disheartening. These are the times though. I think you did so well and it’s such a benefit to all the group members that you have the confidence, presence of mind and command of language to present it concisely. Every time I try and do it I get branded a trouble maker and kicked out lol! Great job.
 

NoWhereKnowWhere

MyPTSD Pro
That’s horrible omg. I can’t believe who ever is doing this dudes supervision isn’t raising concerns.

ah yes the latest one, manifest yourself up by the boot straps. It may even over take yoga, downward dog your way out of mental illness.


transcendental Buddhism from the group. Didn't praise all the DBT she was learning, but all the religion she was learning.
😬 little culty
The group is a pretty quiet one. People don't easily share
😬 little more culty he’s preaching at vulnerable people while in a position of power over them.

Probably for the best that you quit the only thing worse than no therapy is bad therapy. Kick ass complaint I wish I could do that without dissociating and totally forgetting everything I’m supposed to say.
 

Justmehere

Moderator
i quit and the way I quit did not go as I would have hoped or planned... basically, effed up the quitting process, but I quit. The seems like a good step for me? My doc will be concerned, but it wasn't going to help to keep going.

The director and therapist are reaching out trying to talk it through. I spoke to a higher
director but not yet the therapist. The director did tell me they are changing the advertising to no longer promote it as a DBT based IOP.

That's her solution. Because it apparently was never supposed to be that despite weeks of advertising and clinical materials claiming it would be that before I started.

We did only 15 minutes DBT today. That is all that was planned. I confirmed it. And then I quit. Badly.

The higher level director (why do they have so many people called directors?!?) called an hour after I shut off my Telehealth video. She defended the religious video playing, and extensive video playing generally.... until I said ok, I'd send her some Billy Graham videos about thought changing that can be included as well. (I have no idea if that is even out there, I was making a point...) She cut me off to object and say please don't send them. She repeated it adamantly. "No not at all, I never want to see anything like that." She had a strong reaction.

I replied, "See, see that reaction there? You clearly don't believe in that faith and don't even want to see religious leader of a faith you don't believe in using CBT skill. Think about how others feel when straight up religious videos, with no skills talked about, of a faith they don't believe in is sent to them as prescriptive for the status of their soul... and then insurance is billed as if it's a studied therapy!

"I see your point."

She actually agreed the videos were not using DBT or any other evidence based or therapeutic skills in a religious context or any context at all, but trying to apply a specific religion's belief about souls to healing. She said she would speak to the therapist about why he didn't lead with info on other faiths. What the... What about actual therapy?!

She also told me, "It is not a DBT IOP."

The freaking advertising is that it's a DBT IOP. I have the screen shots and emails of them selling it as an adult DBT IOP... She even said it's not designed "even for a majority of the time to be about DBT." What. The.

So she basically confirmed my quitting was a good decision.

She also said playing YouTube videos for the majority of the second therapeutic hour is acceptable insurance billable group therapy. On what planet?!?

What she said about the use of The Secret was odd. Didn't see any issues there. I asked she name the therapeutic techniques being used because when I asked the therapist this, he only said DBT alone. No other therapeutic techniques. None. So what the hell are we doing if it's not a DBT "the majority of the time" and the therapist can't identify the name of a single other technique being used?!

It was a stupid conversation in the end. How is this place so well respected?

I've contacted their billing dept and rescinded authorization to bill insurance for any services. I have asked they not bill insurance only me, itemized. I'll refute it and save my IOP benefits for actual IOP therapy.

I'm not against religion or faith or any worldview or any of that by any means... at all... I am against selling me a DBT group that isn't even a majority of the time about DBT. On purpose.

I don't understand why they thought this was a good idea to run any of this like this... what the actual eff.
 

Justmehere

Moderator
I feel like my reaction to this should be on par with checking out a new gym or grocery store and deciding it's not right for me, not as advertised, and taking my business elsewhere. Or even a new pair of shoes.

Insurance and my referring doctor makes it more complicated and harder to navigate so lightly. And yet, while the logistics may be more heavy, I would like my emotions to be as light about this as aI am about trying on new shoes that don't work out. I'm in
 

Mach123

MyPTSD Pro
You did the right thing and you told them. It’s hard having proper boundaries. There is nothing wrong with it though. Pointing out that people, especially in authority, are saying one thing and doing another is calling them out, and so confrontational. In addition, because it’s mental health there is a large trust component on your side that’s been violated. Also when you reach out and try and find professionals and end up hearing a stuff you find unprofessional it’s discouraging. This is why it’s more emotionally charged than a pair of shoes IMO. But hard as it is you did the right thing, I hope you find a better setting.
 

Justmehere

Moderator
What I described was the post quitting convo with the director. The actual notifying the therapist I was leaving the group didn't go well at all...

I ended the contact with him as I could once it went really wonky and notified the director and the billing dept I was discharging myself and did not authorize billing of insurance of services. The the higher director called and I handled that ok, and it confirmed I made the right decision to quit.

Therapist is still insisting we talk further and I keep ignoring his late night and now early morning calls. There are a lot of them...

What do you think gets in the way of this?
I don't know... it's a key issue though.
 
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