Humiliation and trauma

[jaay]

One of the places I was abused was a school bus, so humiliation was strong then and still is now. It's a thing that mostly lives at the back of my mind, but enjoys popping up whenever I see a bus, am in school, around lots of people, etc. It's different for everyone, I think, it links in with our trauma and experiences differently. Maybe the best way to work through it, outside of getting professional help, is simply to talk about the trauma and admit that the feeling is there. It's what I'm doing, anyway

 

[Swift]

Wow, what a thread @Justmehere.

Humiliation is.... One of the feelings I describe as "black and sticky", like tar. It's awful.

For me.... I think the humiliation was a key part of my trauma. I also reckon that it was designed that way. A lot of perps, especially sexual perps, do this stuff on purpose to mess with their victims.

As for getting past it....
Step one you've got nailed - you're trying, you're naming and you're talking about it.
Shame and humiliation thrive in silence. They're designed to be the darkest thoughts in our heads, the idea that everyone thinks we're stupid and everyone saw our degradation - and no one stepped in. Like. If one person in that room had been decent, had gone "stop, this isn't funny" - then, life would have been different.

Step two for me was realising it was a planned part of the trauma. Like, it was designed to be as humiliating as possible, and that's how it worked. The audience, any theatre geek will tell you, is the key part of the play.

I dig the differentiation between shame and humiliation you've made. To me, humiliation is in the moment, and shame is it's legacy.....

Neither of which, coming to step three, actually belong to me.

The shame and the humiliation both belong with the perps. I mean, at my weakest most humiliating moments - I still never got the joke. Like, I still don't think it's funny or cool or OK to humiliate someone like that.

And - what happened to me, as with what happened to all of you - was awful.

But - as an adult, as who I am now - I'd rather suffer it ten times than put someone else through it.

And that's my strength.

I will never, ever humiliate someone the way I was. So maybe I don't have that much to be humiliated or ashamed of after all.

And - this might be a weird hack but it works for me. I'm big into Shakespeare and also big into Hamilton, and I'm a muso so have done a lot of musicals (my personal fav story is that shorthand in my town for "The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe" is just "CBC" - ie, the cat, the bitch and the cupboard, that's literally what we write in our schedules.) but I digress.

I imagine my perp and her audience as villains - like, the villain and the gang behind them, but on a stage from the orchestra pit, with the lighting etc.

The audience in the room was the villain's gang.

The broader audience of the wide world - thinks those people are messed up as heck in the head for finding that stuff funny.

 

[Survivor3]

Wow, what a thread @Justmehere.

Humiliation is.... One of the feelings I describe as "black and sticky", like tar. It's awful.

For me.... I think the humiliation was a key part of my trauma. I also reckon that it was designed that way. A lot of perps, especially sexual perps, do this stuff on purpose to mess with their victims.

As for getting past it....
Step one you've got nailed - you're trying, you're naming and you're talking about it.
Shame and humiliation thrive in silence. They're designed to be the darkest thoughts in our heads, the idea that everyone thinks we're stupid and everyone saw our degradation - and no one stepped in. Like. If one person in that room had been decent, had gone "stop, this isn't funny" - then, life would have been different.

Step two for me was realising it was a planned part of the trauma. Like, it was designed to be as humiliating as possible, and that's how it worked. The audience, any theatre geek will tell you, is the key part of the play.

I dig the differentiation between shame and humiliation you've made. To me, humiliation is in the moment, and shame is it's legacy.....

Neither of which, coming to step three, actually belong to me.

The shame and the humiliation both belong with the perps. I mean, at my weakest most humiliating moments - I still never got the joke. Like, I still don't think it's funny or cool or OK to humiliate someone like that.

And - what happened to me, as with what happened to all of you - was awful.

But - as an adult, as who I am now - I'd rather suffer it ten times than put someone else through it.

And that's my strength.

I will never, ever humiliate someone the way I was. So maybe I don't have that much to be humiliated or ashamed of after all.

And - this might be a weird hack but it works for me. I'm big into Shakespeare and also big into Hamilton, and I'm a muso so have done a lot of musicals (my personal fav story is that shorthand in my town for "The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe" is just "CBC" - ie, the cat, the bitch and the cupboard, that's literally what we write in our schedules.) but I digress.

I imagine my perp and her audience as villains - like, the villain and the gang behind them, but on a stage from the orchestra pit, with the lighting etc.

The audience in the room was the villain's gang.

The broader audience of the wide world - thinks those people are messed up as heck in the head for finding that stuff funny.

I can relate too a lot of your post Swift it's very accurate.

 

[Friday]

I’m the opposite with shame & humilation.

The only thing my noticing someone attempting to humiliate me does is tell me a whole lot about them, and to a lesser extent the people around them / by how those people react. Which is another piece, there are a lot of times I don’t even notice except by other people’s reactions. What? Is someone attempting to be a venomous c*nt? Where? Oh. There. To me? Now that’s funny. How pathetic.

I think the bar for that one just got set far too high, far too long ago.

Same token / flip side of the coin, I have to work reeeeeally hard to care what other people think of me, and it’s a very short list of people I love &/or profoundly respect. Anyone less than that? I might be disappointed, in them mostly (and also myself if I’ve misjudged them as someone I might be able to love & respect) but not humiliated.

Which is a key point in humiliation... it’s what other people think of me.

Shame? That’s what I think about myself. That one guts me.

‘Having’ to care what other people think, though? That will kick open Pandora’s box, right fast. It’s an extremely rare occurance, and verr verr bad when it happens.

It doesn’t lead to humiliation, though. The door swings the other way, leading to profound guilt & shame, rage & powerlessness, despair & self loathing, regret & remorse. Firestorms of badness. Regardless of what the outcome is.

 

[Freida]

It doesn’t lead to humiliation, though. The door swings the other way, leading to profound guilt & shame, rage & powerlessness, despair & self loathing, regret & remorse. Firestorms of badness. Regardless of what the outcome is.

hmmm... I think I need to do some looking in my mirror because now that you mention it....I think i do this too....

 

[Survivor3]

I’m the opposite with shame & humilation.

The only thing my noticing someone attempting to humiliate me does is tell me a whole lot about them, and to a lesser extent the people around them / by how those people react. Which is another piece, there are a lot of times I don’t even notice except by other people’s reactions. What? Is someone attempting to be a venomous c*nt? Where? Oh. There. To me? Now that’s funny. How pathetic.

I think the bar for that one just got set far too high, far too long ago.

Same token / flip side of the coin, I have to work reeeeeally hard to care what other people think of me, and it’s a very short list of people I love &/or profoundly respect. Anyone less than that? I might be disappointed, in them mostly (and also myself if I’ve misjudged them as someone I might be able to love & respect) but not humiliated.

Which is a key point in humiliation... it’s what other people think of me.

Shame? That’s what I think about myself. That one guts me.

‘Having’ to care what other people think, though? That will kick open Pandora’s box, right fast. It’s an extremely rare occurance, and verr verr bad when it happens.

It doesn’t lead to humiliation, though. The door swings the other way, leading to profound guilt & shame, rage & powerlessness, despair & self loathing, regret & remorse. Firestorms of badness. Regardless of what the outcome is.

I agree @Friday, I spoke to my T about it and the shame lies with the people that did it and shows you what they are like not you (me). If people want to be nasty c*nts then just let them. That's who they are.

@Friday, you help me get my head around how I should think about those people and what they do. It helps me get closer to being able to say to myself "I'm done with this; your the problem, not me" I thank you for that. ?

Yep, used to often respond with freezing. Things must've improved somewhat now as I can sometimes access flight instead. Have even been able to stand up for myself more than I ever used to though humiliation is still too hard often.



I wouldn't say so no. Maybe a very little bit. Self compassion and reduced self hatred n self blame might have have made some small inroads. Deciding that I'm on my side despite the shame and humiliation. Am no where near having worked it all through though.

In the past couple years I've been having a lot of dreams on being shamed and humiliated. Guess my brain's starting to process this stuff I dunno.

I used to respond with freezing. I felt that if I responded or confronted them, then it would end with violence so I would freeze as if it wasn't really happening.

 

[Changing4Best]

Sheeeesh! I had never really gone there. It has been an undercurrent all my life, but talk about it? OH NO! NOT EVER!!! Not even in therapy. I have to drum up some courage to do so, now that the iceberg has been turned over.

 

[ILoveLife]

Every single one of my abusers humiliated me in different ways.

From public humiliation to private, I think the worst part was believing I deserved it.
Took a long time to know I don't.

 

[Freida]

Total squirrel but I am so happy the picture for this post is different. And happy I recognized it as a trigger!!! Yay me!!!

 

[Ronin]

Yeah that pic was bothering me too, but at least I had a different reason to be avoiding the thread than the real reason lol.

(Still can't wrap my head around humiliation vs shame vs... blank space. Don't dig the whole question from that shame / trying to shame others view. I dig guilt more, and other tries at gaining advantage and upper hand, tune out to noise and static and nada about shame.)