Husband Talks About Leaving, I Think Of Suicide

[TeaLeaf]

I had another awful fight with my husband. Every few months he gets very mad during an argument, says the way I am treating him is a global way I treat him and says I need to change or he is done. We have arguments maybe weekly but things are good in between. Last night it was about him thinking he was right about something 2 nights ago, me saying I had a different experience and didn't want to discuss it (because he was so angry and I thought we were looking at different angles). He says me saying I have a different experience means I can't be wrong and he is someone that needs to be right sometimes. Usually he also attempts to leave like he did last night.

I experienced a lot of trauma as a child and have abandonment issues and I should just let him leave when he is so angry but I can't do that because I feel like I can't handle the pain. I end up listening to him yell, apologize for hurting him, telling him what I am going to change. And the whole time I feel a doormat and he doesn't feel like he needs to fix the way he presents himself because I need to deal with him since I made him mad. Why can't he change? Why can't he be ok with someone disagreeing with him? Why does he need me to say he is right? Why does he act like things are ok most of the time and then blow up during an argument and use the big trump card of "change or I will leave"

I feel pathetic and I am unhappy but I also get suicidal thoughts when he threatens to leave and I honestly believe I would kill myself if he leaves. We are both in marriage and individual counseling and these issues have come up before and don't seem to get resolved.

Can anyone else relate?

 

[TLight]

Never ever think you can not be by yourself. I know the abandonment stuff hits deep.....but you have to realize that is that little child in us that WAS (past tense) dependent on parents on caregivers, so if they left we'd likely die.
However, you are not little anymore and if someone leaves you are not going to die......trust me. I've had lots of people abandon me and I am still not dead. I know that panicked feeling and it's so despairing........but you will be fine alone. It's all OK.

As far as him needing to be right? Well, I don't know him so I can't and won't analyze him and I suggest that if you have ptsd that you don't attempt that either as it will only make you crazy. All you can really do is protect your sanity and be around people who support and truly care for you. All you can do is take care of yourself. If he's picking fights with someone with a stress disorder cause he feels he needs to be 'right'.........well, I'd ask your therapist whether or not this is truly helpful for you to be around that kind of toxicity. Doesn't sound like a very healthy relationship to me.

 

[desiderata310]

The threats to leave is a manipulation tactic.
Been there, done that. Have abandonment issues. My ex was a manipulator and much worse but the manipulation was painful. I know it hurts so much that it makes you want to think about suicide and I understand why. It cuts to the quick. It does but even if you don't feel like you can do it, you have to be the stronger person here: you have to make him stop this because it really is kind of abusive.

The one time I got the threat to leave, instead of begging him to stay and apologizing, I said, "That's YOUR choice", things changed. He never used that threat again. He even went as far as to pack up the car and storm around. Heck, I even think he drove away. But he came back. It lost it's teeth when I didn't react the way that he wanted.

When he asked if that was what I wanted, I said, "no, but I am not going to beg someone to stay where they are miserable and make me miserable. If you want to work through this together then let's do that but you can't threaten to do this to me ever again. That is doing more harm than good. I won't tolerate it."

Even if the worst does happen and he leaves and stays gone, you are an adult and can handle this. You will be ok and while it will hurt, you won't have to deal with someone making you feel terrible and fighting with you and telling you to change. Fact of the matter, this is where you are and if you could magically change overnight for him you might but you can't. I would certainly bring this up in your couple's counseling and call it what it is: manipulation.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

Why? (For all of those questions...)

Because you are the one who is the identified patient. You are the one with a mental disorder. You are the one who "officially" has something wrong with her. Thus, it can all be blamed on you. Everything can be thrown your way, and people think that because you have an official disorder, that you are the one who needs to change, not them.

Yes, it sucks. I suggest marriage counseling. A GOOD marriage counselor won't take sides and say its all you.

 

[Friday]

The threats to leave is a manipulation tactic..

Not always.

I was giving my Ex fair warning / am probably the least manipulative person around.

Keep doing XYZ, and I am done. Your choice to keep doing it, my choice to leave. We started separating over that issue, and he didn't get it. Thought I was playing games. Nope. You're crossing the line. Keep it up and I'm gonna quit believing you. Kept it up. Filed for divorce. He still thought I was playing games. Nope. I'm effing serious, here dude. Restraining orders, and more restraining orders (grand total of 11 no contact / restraining orders at one time to cover every base as he kept wiggling through cracks). 2 years divorced now, and he still doesn't get it. He thinks it's some move in some sick game. Nope. I'm not playing games. I was never playing games. And I never want to see you again. Ever. Go. Away.

 

[desiderata310]

I understand @FridayJones I do.
I think (could be WAAAY wrong) this is different. I hope I am right.

 

[Friday]

Whoops! I forgot to add... My ex & my stuff aside...

If you think his leaving will be a suicide trigger... Instead of being afraid, make a plan (or be afraid anyway, but make a plan).

From the basic : call 911 or 999... Down to other more detailed things you can work out with your therapist.

The upside to being suicidal on a regular basis is knowing that just because you want to die, doesn't mean that you have to. Just like the upside of seeing a future trigger, is being able to plan for it.

You can't control your husband.
He'll stay, or leave, and that's on him.
But you can control your own reaction to it.
To some degree. Because you're smart, and self aware, and aren't going to be blindsided by this... As you already know that if ABC happens, XYZ will follow.
Use that. Now. While you're still able to.

 

[desiderata310]

WOW. very clear way of dealing with suicidal thoughts. I had only the sketchiest of plans to deal with suicidal thoughts.

 

[Friday]

Not sure why the sarcasm desiderata?

Some people have wicked good survival instincts or have been around the block enough to have rock solid safety plans in gun eating territory, others go straight to go... & the idea of setting up safety nets to catch them before they fall doesn't even enter their minds (me, for years). Which means you're trapped twice 1) by getting suicidal 2) by anything that makes you suicidal.

I don't know TeaLeaf. For all I know she's got a 15 step contingency plan she can rock out with no worries. But the part I related to was feeling trapped by my own reaction to things (abc makes me do xyz... So omg can't do abc). It took me years to turn the problem on its head and say: If I'm afraid of suicide, to the point where I can't make healthy choices, then clearly I want to live. If I want to live, and make a plan for when I don't want to live, then I don't have to be afraid of it. Or so afraid of it that it keeps me making bad decisions in my life to run away from it.

Yep. Calling 911/999 is the very last line of defense. It's even past walking into the ER because it's when you're past being able to get yourself to the ER. But it's also, being the last line of defense, something that is universal. The last thing you can possibly do. People are different. The dozens of things people can do before reaching "call for an ambulance" don't all translate. Heck. A lot of them would make things worse for anyone else in the same spot (one of mine, for example is to clean my firearms. That's a bad choice for most suicidal people, but it helps calm me). Which is why I said to work out the details beyond calling for help with a therapist in advance.

 

[Hashi]

To be clear, this is not said with judgement. It's said with the thought that I think you need to be getting more from the marriage counselling you're having, either from a different counsellor or maybe from adjusting the way it's going with the counsellor you have.

Why can't he change? Why can't he be ok with someone disagreeing with him?

I think it's probably because:

I end up listening to him yell, apologize for hurting him, telling him what I am going to change.

To be honest, it sounds like you're giving him mixed messages. I can understand why. I'm just a bit confused myself at the different directions going on in what you've said and I imagine that things aren't very clear to your husband. Do you think your expectations/hopes of him are realistic, given what you're saying and doing? (As opposed to what you're thinking and feeling.)

I'm wondering, how much of what you've posted have you discussed in marriage counselling? Is there any way you feel you could talk about what you've said here?

 

[TeaLeaf]

However, you are not little anymore and if someone leaves you are not going to die......trust me. I've had lots of people abandon me and I am still not dead. I know that panicked feeling and it's so despairing........but you will be fine alone

I try to tell myself that I will be ok, that I can tolerate this even though it will be painful but I just can't make myself believe that yet. I am working on it.

The one time I got the threat to leave, instead of begging him to stay and apologizing, I said, "That's YOUR choice", things changed. He never used that threat again. He even went as far as to pack up the car and storm around. Heck, I even think he drove away. But he came back. It lost it's teeth when I didn't react the way that he wanted.

I hope you are not offended but your example is painful and humerus at the same time, maybe because it seems to mirror my situation. My husband admitted that he says he is going to leave when he gets to a desperate place, he needs to say something to get my attention. I asked him if he was serious about leaving or it was something said in anger and I didn't get a straight answer. My sense is that since he has only said it when he has been extremely angry and it is to get my attention directed at him. He's never said it when he is not angry so it seems like manipulation but I don't know.

Yes, it sucks. I suggest marriage counseling. A GOOD marriage counselor won't take sides and say its all you

The hard things about having a good marriage counselor is that the anger that comes up inside of him and level of reactivity get to be dealt with in relationship to what I am doing as well as him. How much of his reaction is my responsibility? When I disagree with him and he has this extreme response, where's the responsibility and insight on his part? A similar level of anger comes up for him in other areas of his life by the way if someone doesn't validate him or give him credit.

To some degree. Because you're smart, and self aware, and aren't going to be blindsided by this... As you already know that if ABC happens, XYZ will follow.

I work on safety plans from time to time. I feel less paralyzed now than I did 2 years ago when he first threatened to leave ( this is about the 3rd threat). I have a lot of things I could do, I guess I feel so ashamed of knowing I will fall apart and be that crazy and unstable person. I know that I will be not safe to be at work for some period of time because of the nature of my job- if I screw up, it could kill someone.

 

[TeaLeaf]

Hashi- the marriage counselor is pretty good. She really emphasizes taking a lot of responsibility for managing your own feelings before coming to the other person. Maybe my expectations aren't realistic, he started counseling earlier this year and it has been effective to some degree, I think he is really new at attempting to manage his emotions, he used to just stuff things down. He frequently says, "Now what am I supposed to do with this anger" when someone else makes him angry. He wants it to magically go away and doesn't get that it's a process. I guess that makes me have more compassion for him, realizing that.

I know that my response to his blow ups, the apologizing and trying to fix things does reinforce his behavior. I am not offended that you mentioned that. I want to NOT do that but I haven't successfully been able to deal with that panicked and abandoned feeling I get when he threatens to leave.

I don't want to mention to him that I get suicidal thoughts when he threatens to leave. I just don't want to be that person, putting that kind of responsibility for my emotions on him. He's aware I used to get suicidal thoughts a lot years ago so he thinks all that is in the past. I have mentioned some of the other stuff in counseling and will try to cover the rest of it in the next session.