I'm Ok Until I'm Not

[Tanishq]

@Solara I learned one thing that you always try to be human and it inspires me to speak up my human needs as well. It's fine to be human, not a bad thing at all as @shimmerz mentioned here.

If you are leaving this forums, I wish you all the best in your healing journey. Wish you wellness and take care of yourself. It was nice to meet you here. :hug: A Gentle Hug if you accept.

 

[Tinyflame]

@Solara , now you are safe (not in danger), I think? Feeling unsafe is fear then (ie ptsd, feeling & perception), not founded fact?

(And yes, I do realize/ live with the reality that that could change at any time.)

 

[Valentino]

I think Solara's need to be safe trumps acknowledging her human and social needs. In fact, I'd guess that one of her primary strategies to stress is to directly attack and deny all parts of her humanity which relate to vulnerability, limitation, or neediness.

All I want is a friend who will hug me and make me feel OK. Pathetic, I know. It goes against all of my anti-emotional BS stance. I hate feeling like I need people. And, most of the time I'm ok without anyone to support me. I can't even tell you the last time I had an *actual* friend. Its just these rare, once in a blue moon moments that pop up where I feel like I need someone. And I HATE it. I hate feeling vulnerable. I hate feeling like a selfish twat for not being able to take care of my own needs. I hate feeling like such a loser.

She is choosing the hardened path of anger and hatred. And not only that, she's directly attacking softer paths of vulnerability, humanity, community, socialization, emotional comfort, etc.

Everyone trying to promote the benefits of accepting one's humanity, vulnerability or neediness, are more likely to alienate, frustrate and aggravate her instead of comforting her.

The majority of trauma survivors one way or another avoid, limit, fear or disown their anger. There is a minority that go the opposite route of harnessing their anger and then direct that anger towards their own very human emotional vulnerabilities and limits. As long as there's will power, this strategy can work quite well to limit and control emotional pain and suffering.

The downside is that will power is not infinite, it's always exhausted. And those times of failure are highly surprising and often re-traumatizing. Exhausted anger means self-imposed boundaries and prior sense of stability and safety falls apart, and then it's feelings of helplessness with a torrent of past unresolved emotional wounds, suffering and memories that come to consciousness. In this state when fight or flight (limbic & sympathetic nervous system) fails, it triggers the freeze response (parasympathetic, primitive/reptile & vagus nerve) which kicks in dissociation, immobilization, shock or depression.

 

[falling_wave]

I feel this way a lot. I think our symptoms make us feel separated and isolate. Try to realize that it's the symptoms causing your distress not who you are. It sometimes helps to take a risk. Find someone even just an acquaintance and ask to talk or for a hug. Everyone experiences struggles they just usually try to hide it so sometimes bringing that truth out is more connecting that isolating. Feel better! Also if you can afford it getting a professional massage often helps me. It's that physical contact, connection with another person, and relaxation combined.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

If healing means that I have to admit to being pathetically vulnerable or pathetically needy, then TBH I don't want to heal. What is the LAST thing that ANYONE wants in a friend, partner, or really anyone they know? EVERYBODY hates needy people! Even I hate needy people. I just want to scream at them to get the eff away from me and to go fix their own damn problems, just as the world (friends, TRAUMA PROFESSIONALS) told me to do. ie depend on yourself, nobody else can fix you but you, it is ALL up to you. I'm not going to backtrack and start thinking that anyone is going to help me through anything. The last thing I will ever do is hand over power to another human being to hurt me. Not going to happen. People are so damn spiteful that they will turn on you on a dime.....been there, experienced that. Sorry I made a post about wanting a f*cking hug. MY BAD!

 

[falling_wave]

It is fully your choice if you want to heal or not and there is no judgement. It is hard and painful to heal. I'm sorry your trust has been broken in the past. There are a lot of people who will do that but I want to point out two things if you are open to them. If not feel free to disregard. A certain level of need for connection and belonging is very healthy and natural. It is not pathological at all. Also I wonder if you are projecting your feelings of hating neediness onto what others feel of you when reaching out. Maybe consider who could be safe but make sure you have a foundation so your whole wellbeing does not depend on that person. That way being hurt is not that huge of a setback. I hope whatever way you choose your needs get met and you feel better.

 

[shimmerz]

EVERYBODY hates needy people!

There is a difference between needy and needs. Your interpretation is skewed on this.

pathetically vulnerable or pathetically needy

Who put these words in your head? This sounds like a 'pathetic' justification from an abuser for denying your 'needs'.

EVERYBODY

This is a word that indicates skewed. People are unique. Overgeneralization is happening when people use the word EVERYONE (especially in caps ;)) It is a sign imho to revisit belief systems that abusers instilled in us and that we accepted because we relied on them at the time.

MY BAD!

Sorry you feel that way.

 

[Tinyflame]

I think other people learn better how to be vulnerable if others are vulnerable with them. So it can be giving & receiving, to be vulnerable with them. Just that most people you can't be vulnerable with safely.

But I find it egotistical (of myself only) to think of myself as the 'only' person out there not intent on taking advantage of, or trying to harm, or desirous of abandoning others. I may do so in my life, but it's never my intention. My whole life has been unsafe, waiting for safety I don't consider an option anymore (though the rare presence of the feeling of it brings great relief.). But it's the only life I have to live & the clock is ticking. Of course people will harm & betray me, & have. But one can be astonished that they don't, as well. JMHO & living experience.

(And, ironically, if I include the times of SI, ptsd-related or not, 'I' am possibly one of the worst threats to my own safety & security.)

In other ways @Solara , based on what you've said of your choices you allow yourself to be more vulnerable than I. You might hate it, but you accomplish it.

PTSD encourages us to make a lot of decisions not in our best interests, even here they refer to trauma & depression as marked by isolation & disconnection.

I hope you can work towards & find the middle ground.

 

[Valentino]

I suspect that Solara is an enneagram type 8 'The Challenger' personality type. If so, then a lot of her conditioning, biases and traits would be more like an inborn temperament, so trying to persuade her to move away from a 'strength makes right' approach might be a waste of time?

Eights are the true “rugged individualists” of the Enneagram. More than any other type, they stand alone....Although, to some extent, Eights fear physical harm, far more important is their fear of being disempowered or controlled in some way. Eights are extraordinarily tough.. Yet they are desperately afraid of being hurt emotionally and will use their physical strength to protect their feelings and keep others at a safe emotional distance...beneath their imposing exterior, Eights often feel hurt and rejected [and] attempt to defend themselves by rejecting others first.

Link Removed
I know a few type 8's in real life, they're quite a challenge to reason with when they're not stressed. But it's likely near impossible to do when they're in rage and fixated on attack. This excerpt matches my past observations:

Rage is blind, and Eights often cannot see when they get angry. Some Eights cannot hear when they get angry... However, a display of force, either physical or mental, will get the Eight's attention. Then you can talk to them. They can listen if force accompanies your words.

[DLMURL]http://www.enneagramcentral.com/Enneagram/Subtypes[/DLMURL]

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