Is it possible to have a flashback when you didn’t witness the event first hand?

[barefoot]

I get confused sometimes with what’s a flashback, what’s dissociation and what’s intrusive thoughts.

In a way I suppose it doesn’t really matter too much which is which. But I’d kinda like to know about this so that I can keep track of exactly what’s happening at the moment.

I keep having what feel like flashbacks to my mum’s death. It comes on suddenly, out of nowhere. It feels like someone’s pressed play on a film. It’s always exactly the same. Once it starts, I can’t seem to stop it - it’s as though it has to play out til the end before I can get released from it. While it’s happening, I feel like I’m there...well, partly like I’m in it and partly like I’m in it but sort of as an observer. I think I am dissociated while it happens and I lose time while I’m caught up in it. Afterwards, I feel tired and a bit disorientated.

The thing is, I wasn’t there when she died. My dad told me all about it in great detail and I guess I know the house and the people involved well so I suppose imagining how it was is fairly easy for me.

My experience and knowledge of flashbacks is limited - though I think sometimes when I’ve thought I was “just” dissociating I could have been having some kind of flashback...my T hasn’t tended to name these sorts of episodes I’ve had with her.

I thought a flashback was reliving something and, while this very much feels like that, can it actually be a flashback if I wasn’t there and didn’t witness/experience it first hand?

 

[Friday]

Nah. It’s an intrusive thought. Pretty damn brutal, though, aren’t they?

They’re harder to shake in a lot of ways, because the mind created it. And the mind has an infinite number of ways of expressing pain.

***

So it’s not like a flashback where processing the scene & self kind of stores/detaches/shifts then & now into their proper places. Instead, my experience, is that it’s a fluid object born in pain / that expresses that pain. The scene doesn’t matter. That can change a thousand different ways, whichever way drives the knife as deep as it needs to. You don’t face intrusive thoughts like these, like flashbacks, generally. You face them as manifestations of grief.

I did say generally, right? That moment you got the call? THAT can well be relived. You can EMDR or exposure therapy the f*ck out of that shit, so the phone ringing or your partner waking you, etc.doesnt kick you right back into that moment. Aaaaaaaand if your mind spun off in a million different ways in that moment? That can also help with the imaginings. But? Again, my experience, is that expressions of pain actually need to be looked at, as such. And dealt with seperately. Because they deserve to be, if nothing else. And the mind has an infinite number of ways of expressing it. So if you try and treat them as “real” instead of “true” (if that makes sense, the pain is real, the scene isn’t)... then you’re just forcing your mind to create new scenes, to speak the same truth. How f*cking much it hurts.

 

[Abstract]

...also, are there aspects of it that could also have "sourced" from other trauma? I find it sometimes blurs or spills over into other experiences. Glues onto them. Sorry to hear that is happening.

 

[blackemerald1]

I get confused sometimes with what’s a flashback, what’s dissociation and what’s intrusive thoughts.

So I get all three.. and this is how I tell them apart for T purposes because categorising for other purpose's well, I don't care...

So, this could be wrong for you.

They are all very disturbing and I can bring myself out of all of them if I catch myself - in time.

Flashback = is a sensory experience from something I have personally experienced - it tends to be the full blown cinematic job and is probably the most debilitating because there is a mental and physical element to it all. I am exhausted afterwards. I will probably sweat, shake/tremble and all my senses will be engaged - I might cry or run. I am totally freaking out. These take a long time to settle from just one flashback. Fortunately these days they are rare for me.

Dissociation = is where I am departing from self and am not in the moment (that I am actually experiencing then and there) - Usually when I really find something, someplace, or someone overwhelming. This is entirely mental for me. It doesn't tend to be very exhausting but it is annoying. I lose a lot of time to dissociation - sometimes.

Intrusive thoughts = is where my mind will not be quiet and stop ruminating over and over in a cyclic fashion the same thoughts and ideas or a series of events from an event I have personally experienced. This is mentally exhausting because inevitably I try hard to banish the unwanted thoughts/memories but they seem to stick even more when I do that. If I have the presence of mind and relax about these, sometimes I can let them flow through me... with a breathing exercise and if I practice enough sometimes.... I get some respite.

@barefoot - I don't know if any of what I have just described is helpful or not. I haven't looked up any text books to give you the real psych definition because I'm pretty sure you can manage that yourself.

 

[barefoot]

Feeling a bit overwhelmed and my brain is fuzzy so I need to come back another time and read this again and properly take it in...just wanted to say thanks for the replies in the meantime. I’ll come back...

 

[barefoot]

I totally forgot I started this thread! Have just read it again and all your comments were helpful in helping me untangle this, thanks.

@Friday what you say makes sense. And you’re right on the brutal front!

@Abstract I see what you mean re things being sourced from other trauma. I hadn’t thought about that and I’m not sure if that could be partly what’s happening or not. Will think about that more...

@blackemerald1 very helpful distinctions - thanks for taking the time to explain it all so clearly.

I told my T a couple of weeks ago about these intrusive thoughts. I thought that doing so would make them lessen if not stop altogether.
Unfortunately not ?

I’m wondering whether the intrusive thoughts are my psyche’s way of forcing me to process what happened and to think about it and feel the feelings...I’m still avoiding thinking of my mum and, when she does pop into my mind, it is still for such a brief fleeting moment and then the thought is gone again. So, I don’t know that I am actively grieving because I’m not really consciously engaging with any thoughts/memories/feelings around her. Perhaps the rumination/intrusive thoughts are the only outlet at the moment? Though I’m not consciously engaging with thoughts/feelings when I’m ruminating either...

I don’t know...it’s just confusing and tiring and I can’t really think straight!

 

[Abstract]

So sorry you are still struggling with this. Those thoughts about not grieving directly are interesting realisations and I could see how they may impact this. In the past when something has been intense and I am avoiding in some way my brain has found all sorts of inventive ways to "speak out". Sometimes it has helped a bit to try to find an out for it in other ways. Sure that doesn't make much sense but gave it a shot. ;) Brain tired.

 

[Starfire]

I get confused sometimes with what’s a flashback, what’s dissociation and what’s intrusive thoughts........I keep having what feel like flashbacks to my mum’s death. It comes on suddenly, out of nowhere........

Hard to keep terms separated. Think of it as a flashback to the *emotions* of the event. Strong emotions. You might as well have been physically there cuz you know the place, people etc. & were given minute details. As close to actually being there as possible.

 

[blackemerald1]

You might as well have been physically there cuz you know the place, people etc. & were given minute details. As close to actually being there as possible.

^^Completely agree with this. I'm not sure if the label of flashback is entirely accurate but the resulting emotion you are experiencing @barefoot may be just as shocking, dislocating and unbearable. So no minimisation just because you actually did not see it happen.

 

[reallydown]

One thing I thought of, and you certainly don't have to answer if you are not up to it, do you maybe have feelings of guilt re your mom's death (I don't mean that you are actually guilty in any way, just feeling so) and if so, I wonder if maybe that could be contributing to the intrusive thoughts? Just something sort of from my experience (I have a similar event that I didn't witness but heard about in detail and experience it in a similar way you do)