Is It Really Dissociation, Or Does Everyone Do This?

[SpongeCakeMcGee]

I had a conversation a few months ago about how the brain retrieves memories.

I said that people have two separate consciousnesses: one that interacts with the external world, and another that is in charge of inner stuff, like filing away memories and retrieving them. The external guy is the liaison between the external world and the interior me. The two consciousnesses are both me, but they are separate and work together.

The guy I was talking to told me it sounded like dissociation. I disagreed. I said that everyone's mind works like this, but that maybe most people aren't really aware of it.

Fast forward to now...

I just restarted therapy this week and my doc thinks I have PTSD (I have had some childhood traumas, sexual abuse, physical abuse, emotional abuse). There is definitely some dissociation with those events (fragmented memories are just coming back to me, 30 years later). He pointed out that I dissociated a few times during the session. He asked me, "where did you go?"

I was embarrassed. My perception was that my mind wandered off and I stopped paying attention. I do that a lot and I always hope that people don't notice. But I did not want to tell him I simply stopped paying attention so that I could think about stuff. It seemed rude.

I figured out today that when I do what he called "dissociating" I am going inside myself to interact with the part of me that handles the inner stuff. He's really the core of who I am. When I go to him, I have to shut out most of the world. My vision blurs and my awareness of my body and surroundings dull or vanish.

The inner-outer thing seems natural and normal to me. Don't people always talk about the person they project to the world vs the person they are inside? Isn't that the same thing? Now that I am thinking about it, I can see how it is causing me problems. But why is it causing ME problems if everyone is this way?

Is it a matter of degrees? Do most people have a more integrated inner and outer self?

Am I just slower than most people? Is it that the communication between my two consciousnesses takes longer than it does for most people, so my presentation to the world is not as polished?

Am I way off about there being two consciousnesses? Do most people experience it as one consciousness with varying levels? Have I created this 2nd consciousness as a buffer between me and the outside world? How is that different than everyone else who presents a certain persona to the outside world?

*edit: ugh, sorry, realized after I posted that there is a different section for dissociation posts

 

[NewDayTomorrow]

Thats ok did you move your conversation someplace else?

I had a similar realization after recovering some fragmented memories and dissociating in therapy. My parents always said "Earth to JB, you're zoning..." kidding about it. People assumed I was a thoughtful daydreamy type of person. I am pretty smart, academically, but I also tend to "zone out" a lot. My research mentor once said, when I immediately forgot or missed his instructions given just momentarily, "Sometimes, I wonder about you." I have a hard time paying attention and I do shut out the world.

Now, when I become aware of it happening, I try to remove myself from people and go for a walk or sit someplace quiet and let my brain do its thing. It is easier that way than fighting it. After therapy, I would sometimes go to a bookstore, because I figured, wandering aimlessly and staring at the walls looks pretty normal when the walls are covered in books. I would pick them up and pretend to flip through them, until I felt normal enough to go home and interact with people again.

I do think there are degrees. When people are worried about a personal problem at work, or when students daydream in class, that is mild dissociation. And dissociation is a natural thing to do. I do think traumatized people learn to do it more and it can become a way to shut out the world. Also, traumatized people do it more noticeably, from the perspective of others at least.

I have not thought of this as two consciousnesses before, but I agree with the analogy. I thought of it as getting lost inside myself, or losing touch with the world, or feeling like the world is far away, or recently "drifting off to trauma-land" is what I introspectively called it. And I am starting to relate to people who take this process so far as to develop personality disorders. I think, that is a more extreme degree of a similar thing. But I am no expert.

This is starting to annoy me too. I would not mind if I had voluntary control over this. But sometimes I want to stay present and I just can't. So far, I just try to work around it and not let anyone notice.

 

[desiderata310]

Interesting.
The way I understand it, yes that is dissociation.
I am the same way. No, I don't think that everyone else is like us. I 'go away' and I can't concentrate on what others are saying to me. I've never thought of myself as having an inner/outer me but one single me that closes the door on the rest of the world or maybe a better way of putting it is that something will happen that will suddenly shut the door and I am inside just dealing with things there.

My therapist has often asked me "where did you go". I never know what to say. I am wrestling with moments. He will say something that will challenge the way I think or view something and There's almost a fight breaking out inside .. hmmm.. actually... maybe there is an inner and outer me... because that's who I am arguing with: the person who is inside and insists that things are one way while another part of me wants to believe what the therapist is selling. I mean I am not - in my mind's eye- arguing with another person just another voice of me- if that makes any sense.

Or it will remind me of something and I will stop to actually think about that thing. It's like being distracted by a bright shiny object. By the time I'm done thinking about it I've lost the thread of what we were talking about.

As I have gone back to look at this post before posting, I even do it when I write.

The door also shuts hard and fast if I have a flashback. That's when my mind decides it's not present day and we are going to play out what happened then and forget about present day. Coming back from that is confusing and exhausting.

errm... maybe I shouldn't think about this too much...

 

[Deleted member 26314]

I can't be of much help I'm afraid, but I just wanted to let you know I am the same. I still don't class it as dissociation however, because I don't fully know what dissociation is. But I do consider myself having two sides.. I can spend a couple hours just in a numb state. I don't concentrate on anything, barely speak and everything I do say is an autopilot kind of reaction, and it feels as though I'm inside my head. I have no idea how to describe it, it's weird but it can last from minutes to hours. I'm not sure if this is how you are, but it is how I am in regards to the two consciousnesses.

 

[SpongeCakeMcGee]

I really appreciate the responses.

The awareness of this is all brand new to me, so I'm trying to make sense of it. There are things I do that I feel are dissociative. I am afraid to talk to people. When i do I usually drift out of myself and it's like someone else is talking. It's still me, but I feel like I'm listening to myself and I can't control what's coming out. I have trouble remembering everything afterwards...the memory itself is dull and dreamy like it didn't really happen.

Sometimes when I have to be in a room with people I get lost in an object or a wall and stare blankly. I feel like im not really there. I'm not really thinking of anything...I cant really think coherently when it happens. Everything feels foggy and unreal. Under it all is a weird dull discomfort. I feel like if someone tries to engage me, everything will suddenly become very real and very dangerous, somehow. I've always been a weird guy and I get my feelings hurt easily and very deeply. It's safer to be in the weird trance, I guess.

I figure this is all because of the childhood abuse. It was my family that abused me. Everyone hurt me. I learned to detach.

But that's not what was happening during my session. I was trying to stay present, but I had to keep retreating inside myself to make sense of what i was being told and to figure out how I felt and how to respond. I don't know if it's a attention problem or if it's because im never really fully present when I'm with others. I don't trust anyone. Im terrified of people. Im very guarded. Maybe I'm so used to keeping the inner me away from everyone that it feels like a separate piece of myself.

 

[SpongeCakeMcGee]

Desiderata, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to trigger anything. Your response was helpful. You are describing exactly the thing that happens to me. And then I felt bad when my doc asked where i went and i couldn't answer. Like I should have had an answer and failed or was stupid. It helps a lot to know that it's not just me.

I also had a couple of brief flashback - type moments during the session, but he didn't ask where I went, probably because the tears came. I told him I am not ready to talk about that yet.

 

[desiderata310]

Triggered myself , not you. Been easily triggered this week. No worries

 

[Kas_Can_Fly]

I have many inner me's, all of them have different purposes and are better at things than me. My consciousness of them varies but I can usually feel at least several of them at once. This makes me feel overwhelmed, usually by the noise inside (different thought streams, voices and often multiples of them have different songs stuck in my head) and feeling different things that are and yet are not mine. It can be disturbing, yet also a relief. It's very confusing.

 

[Meadowsweet]

The thousand mile stare, is dissociation I believe, but quite normal dissociation (if that makes sense)

The way I understand the inner/outer separation, is that everyone does that. But for most people, the outside world is not that different to their inner world. For example, small insecurities or upsets about boyfriends, jobs, what we look like etc, are discussed on a daily basis between people in the outside world.

But when the inner world contains personal experiences of trauma, it becomes very different to what is accepted as 'normal' in the outside world. So the gap between inner and outer is much wider, and therefore it is more noticeable.

 

[silkleaves]

Don't people always talk about the person they project to the world vs the person they are inside? Isn't that the same thing?

I think the difference, at least in my experience, is that the person we project to the world is a voluntary thing, we show people what we want them to see of ourselves, and indeed, I think that a lot of people do that, almost everyone I would venture to guess.

But when in a disassociative state I "check out" of whats going on around me, that's not voluntary...I'm not choosing to project anything. Instead, I have no connection at all to whats going on around me, and have no memory of anything that is going on during that time, because I'm completely unaware of it.

I can spend a couple hours just in a numb state. I don't concentrate on anything, barely speak and everything I do say is an autopilot kind of reaction, and it feels as though I'm inside my head. I have no idea how to describe it, it's weird but it can last from minutes to hours.

That's just how it feels to me...except that I don't speak during the time. I have driven or done housecleaning, like I just go on auto-pilot and one moment Im in one place in time, and the next Im in a completely different place in time, with no memory of what was going on between point a and b. I do web development... its happened to me while Im working and I know its happened only because I snap back, am looking at my work and all sorts of things are completely messed up, and Ive set myself back a few hours by coding stuff that makes no sense. Very annoying.

 

[SadChicken]

I have always had a wandering mind. I'm a day dreamer at heart. Something someone says triggers an idea and I suddenly find myself off down the rabbit trail - thinking about that idea rather than what the person speaking to me is saying. I've developed an instant replay skill for when that happens! Difficulty focussing is a part of dissociation - but I don't think it's the defining quality and I do think that it's a different kind of lost focus. At least it has been for me. When I am experiencing dissociation there is not only a strong sense of an inner me and an outer me - but also that they are disconnected. When I am experiencing dissociation there is no way I could instant replay a part of conversation that I missed because it's as though I wasn't there. I could ask someone a question several times in a row and really try to hear what they are saying but it just doesn't sink in, and it's not because I am thinking of something else. Directed thought is completely illusive. Holding onto a thought becomes like trying to hold onto a fistful of water.

It was as though there must have been all these hidden thought processes happening in my subconscious and while I was strongly affected by them I was completed unaware of them. There wasn't even any conscious emotion.

I think that once this has happened, even after the disconnect has healed there will always be an awareness that there is, in fact, two selves. This awareness can empower us to have a little more control over our subconscious reactions and health.