Is this PTSD? Your opinions welcome. Scientific question, really.

[Teasel]

You must first satisfy the criteria for PTSD to have Complex PTSD.

Really? I have complex ptsd but not ptsd. Conplex ptsd shares symptoms with ptsd sure but I've never heard that you have to have ptsd before you can qualify as having c-ptsd. I used to qualify as having ptsd. Not anymore.

 

[Gibson]

That is because the word Complex in Complex PTSD is a definer. You must first satisfy the criteria for PTSD to have Complex PTSD.

Is that all to C-PTSD. It's only PTSD and then some? I have been reading on them, and they seem to share much, and differ much.

On the etiology of C-PTSD:

• a psychological disorder that can develop in response to prolonged, repeated experience of interpersonal trauma in a context in which the individual has little or no chance of escape.

Say you are a victim of prolonged bullying. There are no single episodes that brought it about, it's more that you've been outside the window of stress tolerance every hour, every day for years on end. With little chance of escape. Such background seems to fit C-PTSD.

On the etiology of PTSD:

• a mental disorder that can develop after exposure to a traumatic event, such as sexual assault, warfare, traffic collisions, child abuse, or other threats on a person's life.

Say you were victim of a terrorist attack. That would be a better fit for PTSD than C-PTSD.

Further it says that «C-PTSD has also been referred to as DESNOS or Disorders of Extreme Stress Not Otherwise Specified. Some researchers believe that C-PTSD is distinct from, but similar to, PTSD, somatization disorder, dissociative identity disorder, and borderline personality disorder. Its main distinctions are a distortion of the person's core identity and significant emotional dysregulation.»

In a way this whole thread is semantics, but I think an apt umbrella term for what we are dealing with is FFF disorders, as the fight-flight-freeze is active both when subjected to prolonged threat and extreme brief threat. And most patients who have a great fit for one diagnosis, also have elements that belong to other diagnosis, either in causation or how the disorder manifests itself.

 

[Chris-duck]

Really? I have complex ptsd but not ptsd. Conplex ptsd shares symptoms with ptsd sure but I've never heard that you have to have ptsd before you can qualify as having c-ptsd. I used to qualify as having ptsd. Not anymore.

NHS criteria says you gotta have PTSD criteria met with the additional stuff on top. Otherwise it's a different diagnosis. But obv PTSD symptoms can ease up but then you wouldn't meet criteria for a new diagnosis at that time even if the old diagnosis will still stick.

 

[Teasel]

Not according to their website, nor according to the psychologists I saw on the nhs. Nor the psychologists tests i took weekly, which said i have complex ptsd but not ptsd.

 

[Chris-duck]

Not according to their website, nor according to the psychologists I saw on the nhs. Nor the psychologists tests i took weekly, which said i have complex ptsd but not ptsd.

Fair enough. It's what I've always been told and what my wee booklet thingy says. But you know you better than I do

 

[DharmaGirl]

That is because you have the complex version of PTSD. You wouldn't have them both. If you break your leg in two places you don't have a fracture and a compound fracture, you just have a compound fracture. They are 2 different diagnoses, but you have to satisfy the criteria for a fracture to have a compound fracture.

"The criteria for CPTSD are the same as those for PTSD, but with the addition of disturbances in self-organization". from: ICD-10 versus ICD-11: the effects of PTSD diagnoses - ACAMH

The ICD-11 formulation of PTSD requires exposure to a trauma defined as an extremely threatening or horrific event or series of events. Similar to the original DSM version of PTSD, the disorder includes three core elements or clusters: re-experiencing of the traumatic event in the present, avoidance of traumatic reminders and a sense of current threat. This formulation conceptualises PTSD primarily as a conditioned fear response and the re-experiencing and avoidance symptoms are specifically tied to the traumatic event. CPTSD includes the three core elements of PTSD as well as three additional elements called disturbances in self-organisation that are pervasive and occur across various contexts: emotion regulation difficulties (for example problems calming down), negative self-concept (for example beliefs about self as worthless or a failure) and relationship difficulties (for example avoidance of relationships)

This is from:

ICD-11 complex post-traumatic stress disorder: simplifying diagnosis in trauma populations | The British Journal of Psychiatry | Cambridge Core

ICD-11 complex post-traumatic stress disorder: simplifying diagnosis in trauma populations - Volume 216 Issue 3

www.cambridge.org

Complex post traumatic stress disorder (Complex PTSD) is a disorder that may develop following exposure to an event or series of events of an extremely threatening or horrific nature, most commonly prolonged or repetitive events from which escape is difficult or impossible (e.g. torture, slavery, genocide campaigns, prolonged domestic violence, repeated childhood sexual or physical abuse). All diagnostic requirements for PTSD are met. In addition, Complex PTSD is characterised by severe and persistent 1) problems in affect regulation; 2) beliefs about oneself as diminished, defeated or worthless, accompanied by feelings of shame, guilt or failure related to the traumatic event; and 3) difficulties in sustaining relationships and in feeling close to others. These symptoms cause significant impairment in personal, family, social, educational, occupational or other important areas of functioning.

6B41 Complex post traumatic stress disorder - ICD-11 MMS

ICD-11 MMS code 6B41 Complex post traumatic stress disorder with excludes, code elsewhere, and included sections/codes.

www.findacode.com

I hope that clears up what I was saying. I quoted so many sources because I wanted to make sure I read it right.

 

[DharmaGirl]

Sorry, I missed all the new posts before I posted. I'm a nurse too @Chris-duck.

 

[Chris-duck]

That is because you have the complex version of PTSD. You wouldn't have them both. If you break your leg in two places you don't have a fracture and a compound fracture, you just have a compound fracture. They are 2 different diagnoses, but you have to satisfy the criteria for a fracture to have a compound fracture.

Yeah this is what I meant, it's just better explained that my brain is capable of right now

 

[DharmaGirl]

it's just better explained that my brain is capable of right now

Lol, that's why it took me so long to post!

 

[Gibson]

Do you suffer from ptsd? Have you suffered from life threatening trauma or sexual abuse? Are you under professional care of a therapist or doctor?

Thanks for asking. Shortly I can answer yes, no, yes. But I can make a separate thread about myself later, and get into those questions.

Fair enough.

Appreciated, and thanks for contributing. Like @Teasel I went to the NHS website to read up on C-PTSD but didn't find anything on how you need have regular PTSD at core, and then C-PTSD as an overlay. But maybe the NHS have changed their definitions since they published the booklet. Not that it matters much. Some define it this way, others that way. And definitions change over time, and good is that. But regardless of the «whole different books, different schools» thing, I think the definition of C-PTSD as laid out on the English Wikipedia page is useful, as such a definition provide a diagnosis for patients who don't necessarily have single episodes that brought about it all, but rather constantly being outside their window of tolerance. Many fit that pattern.

Here's Wikipedia on C-PTSD:
«In the diagnosis of PTSD, the definition of the stressor event is narrowly limited to life-threatening events, with the implication that these are typically sudden and unexpected events. Complex PTSD vastly widened the definition of potential stressor events by calling them adverse events, and deliberating dropping reference to life-threatening, so that experiences can be included such as neglect, emotional abuse, or living in a war zone without having specifically experienced life-threatening events.»

Regardless of whether that definition will change later, I still think it's useful to have the umbrella term «FFF disorders» handy, as the circumstances that may being about C-PTSD looks very much like a it's prolonged FFF-response. So it's a relative of PTSD, I would say, even if C-PTSD would fall out of the diagnosis manuals, or have it's name changed.

 

[Chris-duck]

PTSD and CPTSD self-help guide

Work through a self-help guide for PTSD and CPTSD based on Trauma-Focused Cognitive Therapy (TF-CT).

www.nhsinform.scot

That's the NHS website that my T sent to me to explain
The fourth page or something about cptsd is where is says "must meet all criteria for PTSD as well as the following"
But like I said, maybe different Ts use different resources etc. But that is the NHS website, in Scotland anyway. Some things differ obv cos politics

 

[Friday]

Really? I have complex ptsd but not ptsd. Conplex ptsd shares symptoms with ptsd sure but I've never heard that you have to have ptsd before you can qualify as having c-ptsd. I used to qualify as having ptsd. Not anymore.

Yep.

PTSD + Prolonged & Complex = CPTSD ((-or- PTSD w/ complex trauma))

You can’t have CPTSD, without first having PTSD.

Looooooove the fracture analogy, by the by.

This might help some people out. It’s a bit of an older article, with the ICD-11 still in draft form, but the Dx Criteria hasn’t changed from the draft form.
Understand Complex PTSD (CPTSD)

For more visually minded