It's Here! The Official Diagnosis For Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder

[Deleted member 487]

Ok. Anthony, you now disagree with my last three neuropsychologists and the Neurocognitive Center (name?) at Brigham Young University.
I like you, I respect you, but I also have to asked about your credentials on this.
Mind explaining this to me, sir?

 

[Justmehere]

What did they disagree about? Did they feel you have cPTSD? What ICD-10 code did the university students use?

There is no neuro cognitive center but there is a Neurosciences center - is that what you are reffering to? (Link Removed) They focus on the effects of chronic physical illness on the brain - they are published most recently for the effects of respiratory illness on the brain. Were you a part of one of their research studies and that's why they did three evaluations? Did they clarify what they believe the criteria for cPTSD is as there is no standard to know what they mean by cPTSD? Do you have PTSD + DID? Or PTSD + BP? Or do you struggle with one of the many other different symptom sets described by many other different people?

I have been diagnosised with cPTSD myself.

The problem I have with cPTSD is not if it exists or not, but that there is no one standard definition of cPTSD so that if/when people are diagnosised with it, any of us know what that diagnosis means - what symptom set someone is reffering to with that diagnosis.

 

[Deleted member 487]

What did they disagree about? Did they feel you have cPTSD? What ICD-10 code did the university students use?

I suppose I should scan the evaluations and put them up for everyone to see. Then we'll take a vote on whether or not people that have spent a huge chuck of their lives studying this actually know anything about it.

There is no neuro cognitive center but there is a Neurosciences center - is that what you are reffering to? They focus on the effects of chronic physical illness on the brain - they are published most recently for the effects of respiratory illness on the brain. Were you a part of one of their research studies and that's why they did three evaluations? Did they clarify what they believe the criteria for cPTSD is as there is no standard to know what they mean by cPTSD? Do you have PTSD + DID? Or PTSD + BP? Or do you struggle with one of the many other different symptom sets described by many other different people?

You are correct about the name, I just didn't remember it. I do remember the Brain Injury Alliance of Utah finding a grant that paid for the evaluation. And now that I think of it I recall being told as has been said here before, that it's there, just no codes to define it. (my memory sucks on that, ok?)

The problem I have with cPTSD is not if it exists or not, but that there is no one standard definition of cPTSD so that if/when people are diagnosised with it, any of us know what that diagnosis means - what symptom set someone is reffering to with that diagnosis.

Something about the length of time I've lived with it. I have heard it said that it becomes CPTSD after 6 months, and others up to 5 years. I've been living with it for a very long time. Though in my case I have physical issues that prompted it. And so far the neuropsychologists I have worked with have not given any set definition or time frames, instead because of the length of time.

I'm not picking a fight here or anything, so please don't think that. However I am curious how Anthony can justify what he has said so far. To me it doesn't matter. It's there, I have it, I have to live with it, be it CPTSD or PTSD it's still the same evil creature.

 

[Justmehere]

No one asked for you to post your evaluation. I simply asked what the ICD-10 code is so that way others can use the same code and get the same diagosis if it fit them. I don't know why you are so angry about this. I'm a fellow sufferer who has been given the same diagosis.

The criteria of CPTSD being having PTSD for 6 months or longer is a new definition of both PTSD and CPTSD that I have never come across before - and this proves my point with the problem of no standard definition for CPTSD.

There are many people who have PTSD for a lifetime without having CPTSD at any point. This adds to the confusion of that unversity's diagnostic criteria for CPTSD.

A diagnosis is a label that has a purpose. If I have a diagnosis of Parkinson's, every doctor knows what Parkinson's is and the symptom set that Parkinson's involves. If I have diabetes, same thing. Every doctor knows a common agreed upon list of symptoms for diabetes.

When I am diagnosed with CPTSD - it means different things to different professionals and mass chaos abounds. It creates problems for research as well as other professionals and lay persons accepting the CPTSD diagnosis at all.

I do not debate that the professionals that diagnosed you are very well trained and skilled at what they do. However, it doesn't mean that any other professional has a standard diagnosis criteria to refer to when they come across a patient who has been given a diagnosis of CPTSD, and this does is a great disservice as suffers.

To some professionals, our diagnosis of CPTSD means apparently that we simply have had PTSD for longer than 6 months. To other professionals, our diagnosis of CPTSD means that we are borderline. To others, it means something totally different. The fact that there is no standard definition for CPTSD is a problem.

I personally do not want to be labeled at CPTSD because it can mean and does mean so many different things to so many people - and I personally don't want it to be considered as someone with CPTSD when that often means to many other professionals than the ones who diagnosis you that we have PTSD plus borderline personality disorder.

And, if I have a diagnosis, I would like it to have a billing code so that my insurance can pay for it. That has nothing to do with the details of the full work up you had done and posting them online. But, there is likely no icd-10 code because there is no standard definition of what CPTSD is. It's not in any standardized lists of diagnosise and there is no standard symptom set.

No one needs a professional degree to understand that. You can ask your neuropsychologists and they can confirm for you. This isn't just Anthony's opinion as a lay person or a professional. This is what the data shows. If you or any professional has any evidence that there is a standard definition for CPTSD, then please do post it and what that definition is.

There is already the diagnostic option of PTSD from complex trauma. This is different from many definitions of CPTSD all the same. To be sure, it is a lot of confusion and chaos for professionals and suffers and lay persons alike.

 

[anthony]

I have heard it said that it becomes CPTSD after 6 months

If you heard that, you're referring to Chronic PTSD, not Complex PTSD, which is what CPTSD is typically inferred as. Even Chronic PTSD is no longer a diagnosis, as that was DSM IV, not DSM V. That has been removed. I don't need a qualification to read current diagnostic text... you can read for yourself. All I can say is that this is pretty tragic if students are still using outdated texts for diagnosing.

Please get your neuro experts to give you the Complex PTSD diagnosis that you have decided to argue is real, and show us all here please, and I want to know what the code is. Because there are only two mental health publications in the world, and neither one currently has any diagnosis for Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder within them.

Again... I can read. So before you continue insulting me, or any other member, further, please provide the evidence you argue for. I am tired of reading nonsense from people who post without the factual evidence. Get the factual evidence and post it here please, with the assigned diagnostic code.

If you cannot, then it means they're using an unofficial diagnosis, with unofficial criterion, which has zero legal validity for mental health diagnosis.

The only legal reference, as of right now, to complex post traumatic stress disorder, is within the upcoming ICD 11 which has zero criterion, and actually only relocates to an existing personality disorder diagnosis, which even if used under trial conditions, you would not walk out with CPTSD, you would walk out with the official personality disorder diagnosis.

 

[Deleted member 487]

Again... I can read. So before you continue insulting me, or any other member, further, please provide the evidence you argue for. I am tired of reading nonsense from people who post without the factual evidence. Get the factual evidence and post it here please, with the assigned diagnostic code.

I never insulted you, however I did ask you for credentials. Is that really "that" offensive?

 

[Justmehere]

@cactus_jack - I hope you post factual evidence supporting your position that others are wrong.

 

[anthony]

I hope you post factual evidence supporting your position

Me too... because I'm sick and tired of people trying to make this argument, with complete and utter zero evidence, other than their therapist, psychiatrist or neuro-x told them so, then swinging it back as though their credentials have some authority to validate their own diagnostic application.

Maybe we should allow medical doctors to just make shit up too... we could have a real party with medical diagnosis then!!!

People wonder why mental health is the laughing stock of the medical field, why it has so much stigma attached to it, and why it isn't taken seriously. Sheesh!

 

[RussH]

Does it really matter whether it is PTSD or complex PTSD? It seems to me that either way we are dealing with unresolved trauma, and the treatment is is essentially the same; dealing with the trauma through therapy and the reconciliation of the trauma in our lives.

Either way it really stinks to have been put in a situation, or treated in such a manner to develop PTSD, and the focus should be on healing and not trying to see who has the worst case of PTSD.

 

[Deleted member 487]

Me too... because I'm sick and tired of people trying to make this argument, with complete and utter zero evidence, other than their therapist, psychiatrist or neuro-x told them so, then swinging it back as though their credentials have some authority to validate their own diagnostic application.

Maybe we should allow medical doctors to just make shit up too... we could have a real party with medical diagnosis then!!!

People wonder why mental health is the laughing stock of the medical field, why it has so much stigma attached to it, and why it isn't taken seriously. Sheesh!

In comparison to someone that refuses to show their credentials? Anthony, i'm not saying this to attack you, however I feel that you have no justification to dispute what a licensed credentialed neuropsychologist has diagnosed. The patient can, if they dispute it. And so far the only way to satisfy you is to...validate this? By...how, exactly? do you really think I am going to provide someone that is not licensed a copy of my psych eval? I asked you for credentials. And that offended you? WHY?

I do not have the evals in front of me, if I did I'd re-read them and recollect from there. Maybe I'm wrong and it was "chronic", not "complex".
And you're sick and tired of people trying to make an argument over a diagnosis you disagree with? That's why I ask for credentials. What is so hard about that?
I can read books too, Anthony. In fact I am fully capable of reading and understanding technical manuals that leave people with verified educational histories far greater than mine baffled to all get-out. But that never puts me above them. That never makes me more professional or "better" than them.

I left this group over this very issue some time back. Anthony, what are your credentials and if you have none then politely explain to me how you justify your comments.

 

[anthony]

Hi Cactus,

Firstly, I have always been upfront about my credentials, as you want to call them. I am just a PTSD sufferer. No more, no less.

Secondly, you left this community last time because you were argumentative towards members and staff, you had a difficult time getting on with people. We looked back in our own history logs to ascertain.

Thirdly, I have every right to disagree and state what I've stated, again, there are only two mental health diagnostic manuals used in the world. Do I need to say that again for you? There are only two. I have both current versions, and guess what? Neither one has Complex PTSD as a diagnosis. I do not allow perpetuated nonsense to be stated here, steering others along propaganda paths.

You can do your own research. I have not asked you to post anything about your diagnosis or evaluation here. That would be idiocy IMO. I have asked you to provide evidence that a complex PTSD diagnosis exists that is contained within either mental health manual, and in which can be legally used.

Please provide such evidence, otherwise please cease raising such topics which have already been proved otherwise by many members here, 100% outright showing zero factual evidence of an official complex PTSD diagnosis existing in current mental health doctrine.

Yes... there are variations of hard core believers versions floating around the web... but again, that is not a valid and legal diagnosis, and again, that is why mental health is ridiculed so heavily, because any shrink or psychologist can makeup a diagnosis, claim it has validity, start diagnosing their clients with it, then they cite it must be real because their psychologist / psychiatrist told them so.

You've been asked above by me, and others, to show the evidence that it exists... not some piece of paper you've been given, but factual evidence of a legal diagnosis. Until then...

 

[Lucycat]

It seems to me that either way we are dealing with unresolved trauma, and the treatment is is essentially the same;

This is where the problem lies. The treatment is not the same:
http://pb.rcpsych.org/content/early/2014/11/13/pb.bp.114.047134.full.pdf+html