Kicked Out Of Therapists Office

[anthony]

Nice work James on taking responsibility. We are all responsible for our own actions, and the sooner every sufferer accepts this as a realistic and commonsense fact, the sooner they can stop having little self pity parties and step up to actually help themselves. Regardless how that help occurs or what type, taking responsibility for ourselves is a huge step beyond the denial aspects that PTSD presents us.

 

[Jade-]

We are all responsible for our own actions, and the sooner every sufferer accepts this as a realistic and commonsense fact, the sooner they can stop having little self pity parties and step up to actually help themselves.

Very blunt and to the point anthony. Thanks. It's something I personally needed to read.

 

[Lauren]

I used to be the same with my Psychiatrist and/or T. I'd feel like killing myself, feel like I simply couldn't survive anymore with these feelings and call them for help. Every time they explained they couldn't prevent me from doing it, only I could prevent myself from taking those steps.

At the time I'd get so hurt and angry - it wasn't what I wanted to hear at all! I wanted hugs, to be told I wasn't loosing it, to be told there was some point living. In short I wanted sympathy and validation by somebody I perceived to be in a position of authority. It's taken me years to start realising that the only way to battle this is to stop running for a 'validation fix' (or pity party as Anthony says above) and to start doing the really hard work needed so that I can see myself as being a valid being with no need to self-loathe to the point I beat myself up or try to kill myself.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not all the way there yet. Some days it's too strong and overcomes my coping mechanisms - then I call the Samaritans and/or try and distract my self to hide from the dark thoughts until the worst of the mood has passed.

It's not easy and you have my understanding. There is nothing that can feel more hurtful than having someone you trust, who you put faith in, close the door on you. Your T obviously has faith that you have the strength to cope with this and that you have made enough progress to be able to start to manage your emotions. I know you won't think of it as an achievement right now, but the fact you are not in hospital or worse now really says a lot about your resolve in a positive manner.

Excellent way to put it Emmat. I have contacted the Samaritans a few times in the last few months. Sometimes we really need someone to tekk us that we can make it. Ultimately if we want to kill ourselves we will do it. I believe that if a T or doctor really thought we were going to, they would hospitalize us. At least that's what they did with me. Funny thing is....I wasn't even threatening suicide at the time. I wouldn't tell anyone if I was truly going to try. Reaching out means we don't want to, we want someone to stop us.

 

[Deleted member 5760]

Had you gone home and done it she could have been liable for your death - GDF

Now look - how dare you post something like that. To say that the therapist would be liable if SOL had gone and CHOSEN suicide. I dont wanna start a fight! I have no problem with you gdf. However, to say that a therapist could be 'responsible' for a suicide.... CHECK YOURSELF.... ok? ...because when someone commits suicide THEY make the decision to do so.

 

[gdf]

Oddly enough I am in agreement with you Superjen...I too believe that suicide is an option (choice) and also that many people do use it to get attention or a cry for help but we have to balance it out and respond in our own capacity as friends or family. I believe highly in personal responsibility, autonomy and self-determination, especially in mental and physical health care. Professionally, it is a different matter.

I encounter a fair number of people I work with who express suicidal wishes and feelings each year and I am obligated professionally and by my employer to take action when this occurs just as I am legally required to report suspected child or elder abuse. It is part of the ethics code I work under. It is an more stringent rule for licensed therapists. In the United States (it may be different in Australia) licensed professionals are under legal and ethical obligations to protect their patients from harm so liability in this situation is a reality for a therapist. Depending on the code of ethics the therapist must abide by (there are different ones for different levels of therapists--psychologists, master's level counselors, marriage and family therapists, etc.) certain actions are mandatory.

I will stand by my original statement. Postings sometimes bring up emotionally charged issues and this seems to be one of them. I respect your right to feel the way you do and express your opinion as we all do under the rules here and I don't believe I violated any of them. If so, I will am sure I will be notified.

Gina

 

[James B.]

My regrets, not being accountable to the degree I didn't get help sooner and trust my insticts regarding getting way sick from the psych meds, a big part of the reason my anxiety (stress) turned into gastritis. Ok, the doc sucked, we got that part but still - what happened during the last couple months where I nose dived into homelessness??

I stopped caring *and* to hold a meal down, get this, I started drinking beer. Like magic I could eat a normal dinner but - this is the kicker - I have to be accountable for consuming some alchohol with the meds. This was a part of what happened. Had it already gone too far? It was pretty bad, felt my 'support system' met me down, etc. And, the doc sucked (did I say that already, ok) *but* I have to be accountable for pouring gas on the raging fire and...

not taking care of my basic health. Plus mixing alchohol and meds. Period.

Chances are I woulda ended up homeless anyway, but this in no way negates the fact I contributed - to an extent - to my own demise, so to speak. And my support system, friends? Who picked them? Me.

I have so been through the 'blame' thing, one of my favorite habits from the old days. Fact is, I ran from therapy for years (for all the reasons we know) and my condition just worsened. Who's fault? Mine.

My life reads like a catalogue of very bad mistakes, fueled in no small way by my ignorance, fears and vain preoccupations. Did I love my suffering? I felt, perhaps inside, damaged beyond hope. Still, did I *love* my suffering?? I rest my case. Hence my current use of a lifestyle "magnifying glass" to eradicte ways I may *still* be shooting myself in the foot.

Am I "getting down on myself"? Beating myself up? No. Just appropriate self hazing to grind the truth into my unbelievably hard (change resistant) head.


FYI

 

[Tessa]

0200 this morning I sat listening to a drunk woman who had just ried to hang herself.She is grieving the loss of her husband to a crocodile attack. I did this 40 times last year and the list is mounting this year, GDF is right..in Australia,as a health professional,we can be held liable for not keeping a suicidal person safe.

I cannot tell you how wearing it is to be doing this continually. I will never forget the policeman I found hanging after 3 days...and there are others.

I have been there too and hang on to every shred of my faith at times to keep going.

Please take care and try to explore ways to keep yourself safe when you feel this way.

 

[intothelight]

I think that people threaten, entertain the thought of, or commit suicide for as many reasons as there are individuals. I am just going to share something and maybe it could help someone else.

In January, I was in the midst of a severe depression and suicidal thoughts were increasing. I did not share this with anyone, nor was I going to. In my state of mind, it was the answer. Fortunately, a little self preservation set in and I removed the clip and called for help. The help led to the diagnosis, treatment and removal of all guns from the house.

The biggest fear that I have is the self preservation won't kick in the next time. My psychiatrist told my husband what behaviors to watch for and we shared this information with another close family member and another friend. Bottom line, when I am not in control of my thoughts or actions, lock me up. Meanwhile, I am doing everything I can and working hard to prevent that type of situation from occurring again.

If you have this tendency, please share it with someone and have a back up plan. Not everyone announces their intentions nor will they pick up the phone to get help. For those who might be hesitant to intervene, don't be. The old adage "better safe than sorry", is most appropriate here.

Intothelight

 

[Deleted member 5760]

Exactly,

Thank you intothelight. Now, it is ~not~ fair to even entertain the idea that a psychologist could be responsible for something like a suicide. And I'm just being honest here - if I was a mother and my child wanted to be a psychologist I'd say 'NO, DONT' if that were the case. I understand there is a professional responsibility and to be perfectly honest with you - I'd have called the police (something which I'm sure SOL would not have appreciated, but would've deserved all the same). I would have called the police and the ambulance. And if SOL had been marched off in a straightjacket then so be it!

And that would be my 'professional responsibility'

 

[anthony]

I don't believe therapists have the same legal responsibility as what a psychiatrist has. If a person said they wanted to kill themselves, the psychiatrist would have a legal obligation to either call in help to have them incarcerated for their own good or make a clinical assessment that they are only making idle threats / further discussion with them. A therapist does not have the training that a doctor has, thus I believe the laws are quite different. I am not sure where a psychologist falls into the legal aspects... as they are also not a doctor, though usually can prescribe, so the laws to them may be similar to that off a psychiatrist as they can diagnose, but therapists are much lesser as they do not possess the clinical knowledge to make such assumptions or diagnosis, ie. the person is suicidal, is depressed, clinically has PTSD, etc. It is like this forum, I nor any member off this forum has any legal responsibility to another person if they come on here and say they are going to cut themselves up, kill themselves, etc, as we do not possess the training nor face to face contact required to diagnose / make a clinical assessment.

 

[reallynow]

I have to say that I mostly agree with anthony, though this is a touchy subject. Either way it is some sort of cry for help or cry for attention, that alone is what should be investigated further and worked out. I know that when people are that serious about suicide they never tell anyone. Some people actually seem to improve right prior to a suicide attempt, they try to "say goodbye" or "make peace" luckily some people wake up and realize the severity of what they are doing and then go for help.

This is one subject that is so touchy for me, because I am "allergic" to pity parties. I know they alone can be devastating for people around who care about the person. No I don't agree with the psychologist being liable for suicide, unless they were some psycho who literally pushed the patient to considering it. North american way of thinking: sue and blame everyone else for your own mistakes, and ANY mistakes.... please. ridiculous.

This is touchy for me mainly because of my experience with my own mother. She went through a tough life while I grew up, and I acknowledge that she struggled enormously, however she used me as her therapist and this deeply scarred me. She told me that she had planned her suicide, how she planned on hanging herself in the closet, but then she decided against it. Today I constantly worry that she is going to hurt or kill herself because of that. Its unfair to me. There is always a reason to keep moving on and forward. Anyway although I may sound cold hearted in saying that, I truly do sympathize with this issue, and I believe help for these individuals is extremely important. Just this year a student at my school poisoned himself, and every year at my university at least one person kills themselves every year. It is so sad that they not only feel like life is hopeless but that these people don't see the potential they have to make a difference and contribution to the world.

I bet I sound two sided on this issue, but really I do agree with what people are saying against pity-parties and calls for attention, I'm against these pity parties. Also this site is not the place for posting threats of suicide... too many people on here likely deal with this threat in some area of their life, and this is triggering and not appropriate to be focusing on. I encourage people to call 911 or a hotline instead. This has triggered me more in the last few days into worrying about my mom killing herself, and I don't need to be triggered into any more anxiety than I already deal with day to day, as well as everyone else on this forum.

 

[catjudo]

I don't believe therapists have the same legal responsibility as what a psychiatrist has. If a person said they wanted to kill themselves, the psychiatrist would have a legal obligation to either call in help to have them incarcerated for their own good or make a clinical assessment that they are only making idle threats / further discussion with them. A therapist does not have the training that a doctor has, thus I believe the laws are quite different. I am not sure where a psychologist falls into the legal aspects... as they are also not a doctor, though usually can prescribe,

In the US, while a therapist doesn't have the same training, they do have the same legal responsibility if they believe a patient is a danger to themselves or others. The same holds true for psychologists. I also wanted to say that in the US psychologists do not have the ability to prescribe medication, only psychiatrists (or other doctors). (We also have nurse practitioners (ARNP) and physician assistants (PA) who can prescribe some medications. I haven't really seen PAs in the mental health area, but we do from time to time come across ARNPs in our mental health field--usually in a large clinic-type setting.)

Part of this legal obligations is about making sure that people receive adequate care and that someone steps in to help them when they need it. A large part of it is because, as reallynow said, we live in a very litigious society.