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News Las vegas massacre

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Not awesomely well, as I understand it. Alcohol really doesn't combine in a healthy way with any prescr...

Well, he was a whiney bastRD, for sure. So, he works 365 days a year and whines about the housing crunch and the babies that bought these loans and couldn't pay them back in 2007. And, that hurt the comp rooms and stuff... nevertheless his flip-flops and sweatpants for an attire. So, that in itself tells me .. he targeted young people and had been thinking about this for a while.

That's just crap..There is no way a hotel is going to pay someone to stay 365 days a year or comp it out. I find this lawsuit pretty interesting. He slipped and fell on something..

I don't think he was successful but only the detectives would know this.. there is no way we could learn about his finances but I don't think they were great. No one has a life working 365 days a year, so that tells me he didn't want a life.. He blamed
 
this guy was a nut. You can't fix that. you can't prepare for it, you can't control it. He was a nut.

But the enabling of the nut to kill so many so easily can be controlled. The gun laws we have try, the background checks we have try, the penalties for breaking these laws and failing to undergo the proper checks when buying or selling try.

I think the root cause of this is as always mans inhumanity to man and that's as old as history.

the news reports were quick to say that this was the biggest slaughter in modern times. Thats because it pails in comparison to the slaughter this country has been witness to in times that predated even semi-automatic weapons, even cartridge weapons, even cap and ball weapons.

Nothing new here.

I know people that were in the crowd at that concert, they are home safe, unharmed. I havent talked to them about it yet, I probably won't unless they start the conversation. They know me and I know them, thats all. Thats as close as I get to this particular shooting, personally. But I go to places where the death of innocent people has happened, all the time, almost everyday. We all do.

This guy used a gun to kill all of those people. In the week that has passed, many more innocent people have been killed on our roads. We all drive down roads where a drunk driver has killed someone and we don't think about it.

In my state, 5 were killed in one wreck last night by a man that was convicted of drunk driving just last July and was drunk again, behind the wheel last night. He was convicted of drunk driving but bought alcohol, a vehicle and gasoline, without any law against any of those things happening and without any background check at all.

Is it only a tenth as bad as what happened in vegas because only 5 died? Or is it worse because it will happen 10 more times in 10 more places again today, and tomorrow and the day after that?
 
Is it only a tenth as bad as what happened in vegas because only 5 died? Or is it worse because it will happen 10 more times in 10 more places again today, and tomorrow and the day after tha
This topic has everything to with the shooting and it's not related to other homicides or numbers, or times ten strategies, to say 10 people were murdered this day or that day.. this is about the Las Vegas shooting.
 
Not awesomely well, as I understand it. Alcohol really doesn't combine in a healthy way with any prescription drugs I'm aware of. But, they're both basically sedatives....

Interesting article.

I found yet, another interesting interview/article. This one is with his hairdresser and she says, "once again" he smelled of alcohol. So, he was ( at least) drinking.

Gunman's hair stylist describes his last visit - CNN Video
 
so if you can get it and can share the info and insights here, I, for one, would greatly appreciate it.
Well, I actually got the book, and just finished reading it. It's heavy going because the guy is big on statistics. Which is good. He's trying for objective, accurate data. It's also a lot to wade through, for a person who's bored by statistics.

He made some interesting points, but no grand, sweeping pronouncements. The first interesting point is that they really didn't start even trying to keep good statistics on this sort of thing until the mid-70's. Most of the data that's available is from the news media and most of the data that gets cited in studies is from the news media. He seems to have done his best to get an accurate view, but concedes the limitations. But, it's worth repeating, most of the available data, especially before the mid-70's is from the media. It's probably not totally representative.

We've always had mass killings in this country. The actual "classic" mass killing is more along the lines of "a father, for some reason, despondent, kills his family and, often, himself." Might use a gun, might use another weapon, might use fire. There are lots of variations on that theme. Or, a disgruntled employee kills coworkers and boss. Or something similar. There is also a long history of random mass killings by strangers. Sometimes with a gun, sometimes with something else. I was surprised at the number of cases he cited from pre-1900.

One of the things he mentions at the end of the book is that there are, and have been, events like this in other countries as well, but they are not extensively studied. He thought it would be interesting to study other countries and other cultures, past and present, to compare and contrast. He noted that we have a couple of words in our language, "amok" and "berserk", that refer to a rather random, homicidal violence and they come from other languages. He speculated that this sort of thing has been around for a LONG time.

The rate of mass killings seems to rise and fall along with the general murder rate and the general violent crime rate. There was a spike in all of that during the 20's & 30's. The mass murders at that time appeared to be most likely to be connected to financial stresses. There was a dip during the 40's & 50's. He speculates that might have been because it was a time of relative prosperity and it was also a time when society was stressing conformity.

Prior to 1900, mass killings tended to be committed by one group against another. (At least the ones that made the news, and this is a problem with the data.) The US military was rather into slaughtering native people. There were quite a few incidents of whites killing blacks, residents killing immigrants, militia killing labor protestors, etc. Much less of that after 1900. (Lynchings don't exactly fit this "mass killing" criteria, in most cases.)

In the conclusion, he notes that there isn't good data prior to 1900 and it's possible that the period of the 40's and 50's was part of a general decline in violence with the Depression era being a blip. Or, our current level of violence might represent a return to "normal" levels, after a relatively calmer period.

Here's an insight I found particularly noteworthy. And, I think this is worth considering in more cases than just this one. He pointed out that the news media (ALL OF IT) actually exists to make money. I'm sure there are journalists out there in search of truth and justice, I really am. But, in the end, they have to sell papers or magazines, or advertising, or something. Also, the news media only has so much time or space available to present stories. This combines to affect their choice of story. He looked at factors that appear to effect the reporting of a story and found some interesting things. The more victims, in general the more press. Guns get more coverage than other weapons. Female and juvenile victims get more coverage. Random victims get more coverage. (All of this is in general, there are exceptions.) So, stories like the Las Vegas shooting get way more coverage than the more "typical" mass killing. Because they sell. Not that they aren't bad, clearly they are. But mass killings are still relatively rare and this type is less common than other types.

Which is not to say that we aren't experiencing an uptick in this sort of thing. We might be. The book was published in 2007, so there's no data for the past few years. But, we've had upticks before.

The other thing he mentioned is that there are lots of ways of framing this kind of thing, depending on your agenda. Groups like law enforcement can use it to justify their existence and lobby for more resources. (He cites an example of the FBI collecting data on serial killers and presenting it in a way that was a bit deceptive, but helped finance projects they wanted to finance.) You could frame it as a domestic violence problem, because many mass killings involve families and a history of domestic violence. You can frame it as a mental health problem, because a notable percentage of killers were, or get, diagnosed with a mental health issue. (Most often paranoid schizophrenia and or major depressive disorder.) You can frame it as a school or workplace violence problem, and, of course, you can frame it as a gun problem. He doesn't try to frame it as anything, just points out that there are a lot of ways to use the data. Clearly, you can also use to to sell media.

He mentions the "copy cat effect" and says there are cases where that was clearly a factor, but those cases are fairly rare. He doesn't speculate on whether or not media attention to this sort of thing inspires more of it in a more vague, general way, because it kind of "normalizes" it.

So, maybe the conclusion is "It's complicated"? A bit of a disclaimer. I'm not good at reading statistical data and that's mostly what this book is. I've summarized A LOT. I've tried to be accurate, but I'm sure there's some of my own, personal bias in the way I summarized the data. But, there you have it, the book report I promised way back when.
 
I heard on NPR today that in the US the number of deaths caused by gun violence, auto accidents, and liver disease are roughly the same annually.

And auto accidents per capita are declining and have been for some time as we require automakers to design safer cars. My guess is that liver failure is on a per capita decline also even with the epidemic levels of Hepatitis c among baby boomers, thanks to breakthroughs in treatment and prevention funded in part by government funding.

Will gun violence have to be as deadly as heart disease or cancer before it gets the federal level money needed to study and hopefully find workable ways to reduce it?

I am afraid it is going to be like trying to stop the tide for our future generations unless it is somehow turned soon.

For now, good guys with guns and people that are trained and willing to advance when they hear shots are the only thing that help me feel even a little bit safer. Thanks to anyone who serves or has served in uniform. We need so many more of you.
 
Will gun violence have to be as deadly as heart disease or cancer before it gets the federal level money needed to study and hopefully find workable ways to reduce it?
Good question.

I thank you for your thoughtful report @scout86 but it is difficult for me to consider statistics when children are being shot at school as happened earlier this week in Northern CA.
 
And, you're right, @ShikibuZ , it's not just about statistics. The only value of the numbers is as they aid our understanding of the problem. If we could magically vaporize all the guns in the world, we would definitely eliminate gun deaths. But we wouldn't stop people from killing groups of other people. We'd just limit their options for doing it.

There isn't really enough information to understand the problem at the moment. We don't have accurate information on the history of the problem. It hasn't been studied extensively in other cultures. From the data, it really looks like things like economic stresses increase the incidence of all homicides, including this type. I imagine other stresses might as well. Could be that's what's responsible for what appears to be an uptick in the incidence right now. If we understand it better, can we deal with it better? And would we?

There was a prohibition passed some time back, against spending government funds to research gun violence. That needs to be undone and we really ought to be looking at the causes of violence all the way around. (JMO)
 
There was a prohibition passed some time back, against spending government funds to research gun violence. That needs to be undone and we really ought to be looking at the causes of violence all the way around. (JMO)
Couldn't agree more!
 
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