Hey Batgirl, I just don't believe that hippocampus size relates specifically to PTSD. To me, its not proven research. I know its a part of the brain associated with memory, but fail to see how its size matters, especially if there is no "before" MRI to compare its current size to (to demonstrate shrinkage). To me, you need to have many MRI's that show 'before trauma and after trauma' to compare... I don't think that's available. And because of this, I don't know how 'shrinkage' can be determined in the first place and also tagged to PTSD. Is everybody's heart the same size as their fist??
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Left Brain Struggles To Put Right Brain Emotion Into Words
- Post starter Roerich
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D
Deleted member 93
Mac, some very good points. Glad to see you posting and challenging what is just fed to you and looking for the hardcore answers as we all are. Only way we can find them. PTSD is still in the infancy of actually being looked at for what it is, it will take time and hope our children will suffer less due to what we go through now. Again good to see you around!
I remembered watching an UK documentary show some time back about depression, hippocampus size and fish oils. The doctor claimed that fish oils are able to revert the shrink hippocampus size in a young adult, and also his depression state. MRI scans (before and after) were shown, and the later has an improvement in volume.
D
Deleted member 93
I knew a nice long stress free vacation on a beach eating fish platters served would help... No one listens though. Hubs said I have at least 18 more years before stress free and a break.
"...challenging what is just fed to you and looking for the hardcore answers as we all are." :hello: Hi Veiled... I think you hit the nail on the head with that statement. Thanks for your post! My family says that I'm a hermit, and I guess I am, but here I can relate to everyone's problems and that makes me feel more comfortable with socializing.
Dr. Roerich, I just want to say that I mean no disrespect to you personally.
Dr. Roerich, I just want to say that I mean no disrespect to you personally.
I have this question, I always daydreaming (accessing right side of my brain) alot but couldn’t remember anything of it later? Usually, I would blank stare at the blackboard during a lecture and only startle by my lecturer when they ask me whether I could follow. Also friends would make annoying remark at me, saying “Are you listening to me, I am talking to you, why are you daydreaming so much?” But I could never remember where my mind went.
- Post starter
- #19
Mac,
Welcome to this wonderful community unique in the world in my opinion and hence the reason why I have joined. I encourage fellow mental health professionals to come out of lurk mode and voice their thoughts as well. It is by communicating what we know that we have hope of finding what we don't know. No offense taken by any comments you have made. The more I gain in finding bits and pieces of the PTSD puzzle, the more I am humbled by what I don't know.
Brain scanning, whether looking at increased activity metabolically or sizes of structures, helps illuminate what is going on in the brain. It is difficult to make a diagnosis of PTSD, and even more so when the person who may be suffering is unable or unwilling to reveal what he/she is really feeling. No diagnosis, no treatment. Many will shun treatment even if a diagnosis is made due to the stigma attached.
A recent article in the Air Force Times, "Brain scan could be better test for PTSD", comments:
"Rather than argue over whether a 15-minute survey can determine if service members suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder, researchers are trying to find biological ways to make the diagnosis.
“We’re looking for an objective, independent, biological marker,” said Dr. Charles Marmar, who directs the PTSD facility for the San Francisco Office of Veterans Affairs, told the House defense appropriations subcommittee Friday.
The best bet so far is using brain imaging to look for areas of the brain with unusual activity, he said.
A physical test could change the stigma of mental health issues. If a brain image could show PTSD, the illness is no longer invisible: The test could make the diagnosis objective because it would not depend on a service member explaining why he’s sick.
Marmar said Iraq veterans need face-to-face exit interviews that take about two hours with trained counselors to receive a proper diagnosis. He recommended pre-deployment, deployment and post-deployment screening.
A major issue with the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan is that after months away from their families, most troops just want to go home; they’re not interested in spending any time in a treatment facility working on their mental health issues.
But Marmar said recent studies have shown hope beyond a physical proof of the disease. First, counseling may work just as well over the phone as it does face to face, and phone counseling has a lower dropout rate because service members like the convenience. Second, service members may be able to get the help they need through counseling over the Internet.
“OIF and OEF veterans like computers,” Marmar said. “The Internet could help.”
Roerich
Welcome to this wonderful community unique in the world in my opinion and hence the reason why I have joined. I encourage fellow mental health professionals to come out of lurk mode and voice their thoughts as well. It is by communicating what we know that we have hope of finding what we don't know. No offense taken by any comments you have made. The more I gain in finding bits and pieces of the PTSD puzzle, the more I am humbled by what I don't know.
Brain scanning, whether looking at increased activity metabolically or sizes of structures, helps illuminate what is going on in the brain. It is difficult to make a diagnosis of PTSD, and even more so when the person who may be suffering is unable or unwilling to reveal what he/she is really feeling. No diagnosis, no treatment. Many will shun treatment even if a diagnosis is made due to the stigma attached.
A recent article in the Air Force Times, "Brain scan could be better test for PTSD", comments:
"Rather than argue over whether a 15-minute survey can determine if service members suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder, researchers are trying to find biological ways to make the diagnosis.
“We’re looking for an objective, independent, biological marker,” said Dr. Charles Marmar, who directs the PTSD facility for the San Francisco Office of Veterans Affairs, told the House defense appropriations subcommittee Friday.
The best bet so far is using brain imaging to look for areas of the brain with unusual activity, he said.
A physical test could change the stigma of mental health issues. If a brain image could show PTSD, the illness is no longer invisible: The test could make the diagnosis objective because it would not depend on a service member explaining why he’s sick.
Marmar said Iraq veterans need face-to-face exit interviews that take about two hours with trained counselors to receive a proper diagnosis. He recommended pre-deployment, deployment and post-deployment screening.
A major issue with the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan is that after months away from their families, most troops just want to go home; they’re not interested in spending any time in a treatment facility working on their mental health issues.
But Marmar said recent studies have shown hope beyond a physical proof of the disease. First, counseling may work just as well over the phone as it does face to face, and phone counseling has a lower dropout rate because service members like the convenience. Second, service members may be able to get the help they need through counseling over the Internet.
“OIF and OEF veterans like computers,” Marmar said. “The Internet could help.”
Roerich
- Admin
- #20
anthony
Founder
It doesn't actually mac, and you are precisely correct. There have been people who test positive for PTSD in every way, except MRI, which didn't show decreased hippocampal size, yet was clearly evident they had PTSD, however; PTSD can be measured in multiple areas of the brain, not just hippocampal size, but also activity across the left and right brain, and more. If one area fails, another will generally be conclusive to show a difference. Yes, the majority of sufferers will immediately show change in multiple areas of the brain, but their have certainly been studies outlining that not all PTSD sufferers have the same results brain wise, far from it. They work on the majority, and that seems to be what gets translated as I see it, and become the norm to talk about, yet the other side of the story most certainly exists. I think the majority issue also rubs off upon the physician industry, where they work off the majority also, don't see a decreased hippocampal and blurt out that PTSD is not present, when infact if they looked at all areas, they would likely find one that has an increased neurological presence, or a change in volume. It would be rare from my understanding, that not one of the areas would show a positive outcome to PTSD from MRI though... which would put a lot of doubt into a physicians mind upon those results, as it would mine even.mac said:
I love challenging the norm... I think the norm is over rated, and needs to be exposed for all sides. Great work mac....
- Admin
- #22
anthony
Founder
Because MRI machines are in rare demand, expensive to use, and generally booked solid with emergency patients, and those requiring brain scans. It is rare for a doctor to book a person in for an MRI, because of the cost generally. The military could do it, because the cost of the machine they would be using towards how many people they could then prove didn't have PTSD... so for something like private organisations, military, etc, the cost of the machine is worth it for paying out soldiers compensation for something they may not actually have.
Yes very expensive. Evie was "fortunate" to get her MRI. Though it shows something going on in her brain, I don't believe it necessary to her diagnosis. To be honest, it's hurt her more than anything, because she now frets about "brain damage". The neurologist didn't have a definite explanation for us regarding the brain changes. I agree that it not an indicator of PTSD, necessarily. Just a theory like all the other cock and bull theories that change constantly.
Jim.
Jim.
"Just a theory like all the other cock and bull theories that change constantly."
I actually agree with your whole post, Jim. And yeah... I think that being told you have something physically wrong with your brain just adds to the crap you already have to deal with! Maybe, in time, Evie will heal (as we all want to), and she can look back as to how far she has come and who knows, maybe one day be a powerful inspiration to others. I feel better for Evie knowing that she has you for an uncle. Thanks.
I actually agree with your whole post, Jim. And yeah... I think that being told you have something physically wrong with your brain just adds to the crap you already have to deal with! Maybe, in time, Evie will heal (as we all want to), and she can look back as to how far she has come and who knows, maybe one day be a powerful inspiration to others. I feel better for Evie knowing that she has you for an uncle. Thanks.
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