Low Energy Neurofeedback System (lens)

[Jeffrey Davila]

Hello,
I'm a Vietnam Vet (B817814) and am curious if anyone has direct experience with LENS. I have seen it work extremely well for Vietnam vets but it's very small sample of 3 and I have no clue about returning Iraq or Afghanistan vets. I saw the thread from early 2011 but no follow up.
Thanks,
Jeffrey

 

[Deleted member 1860]

Yes, I have. I have written about Neurofeedback a number of times here on the forum but perhaps not about LENS specifically.

I used to be a strong advocate for Neurofeedback in general, but my stance recently changed after a recent bad Neurofeedback session which highlighted to me why Neurofeedback needs to be approached with extreme caution in light of the fact that there is a lack of solid research done on the use of the treatment.

I had 1.5 years of Neurofeedback sessions, one every week to two weeks. Only two of those were LENS sessions. I had extreme reactions to LENS in the form of severe anxiety, panic attacks, flashbacks, etc. The LENS treatments can be done for varying amounts of time. Mine were only for a fraction of a second, practically the shortest you can get. My brain simply couldn't handle having a frequency sent through my head as it disrupted my functioning too much.

Ive done research on the adverse effects of Neurofeedback and there seem to be two camps of thought. Those who believe it is the next big thing and believe it when all of those EEG websites say there are NO side effects, and those of us who know this isn't true as we've experienced the bad side firsthand. But before buying into the hype, think about this. Are there ANY medical or therapeutic procedures out there that don't have any potential side effects? Nope. I'm not saying Neurofeedback won't help you, or that it hasn't helped other people, rather I'm saying to become educated about it and know what you're getting into.

As for me, I decided to stop Neurofeedback after a bad session which spun me into one of my worst episodes in almost 2 years. What went wrong? My therapist simply got distracted and didn't time my session correctly. I had no choice but to stop the Neurofeedback because something so seemingly benign causing so much harm?...well, I'm not willing to risk that happening again.

I wish you the best.

 

[Jeffrey Davila]

Thank you so much for your detailed and very insightful response. I was asking about LENS in this community because I personally had a stunning response to this form of neurofeedback. So much so I took the LENS certification training. After Vietnam I went nuts with drugs, racing cars, and an alternative lifestyle that included guns and dangerous situations. My therapy at the time was making bullets in my parents basement. Fast forward 40 years and I'm a licensed psychotherapist in California and my partner is a LENS trainer and technical support specialist working at OchsLabs with Dr. Len Ochs who discovered LENS some 20+ years ago. Your experience with the LENS reminds me that not all practitioners are created equal. This seemingly benign treatment can be overwhelming to someone with PTSD and probably an undiagnosed TBI. The feedback used in the sensors is over 400 times weaker than holding a cell phone to your head. The American Medical Association says it's so weak it can't penetrate the scull. Although it's been approved by the FDA as a relaxation device it's use among doctors, psychologists, and healthcare professionals has been on the rise with some doctors dedicating their entire practice to LENS.

I am truly sorry for your experience because it could have been so different. We use a complete written profile covering sensitivity, reactivity, hardiness, along with a central nervous system workup and a comprehensive interview that gives us a clear indication as to the client's sensitivity to treatment and an understanding that when someone is used to high levels of anxiety you can't just remove it because you can get the type of response you described.

I am going to start working with more vets suffering from PTSD and TBI and what you have shared is invaluable. May I use your post (no name) to share with other healthcare providers using the LENS? Also, how were you feeling after your severe reaction subsided?

Thanks again for your post,
Jeffrey

 

[anthony]

Jeffrey, please don't post loaded questions for the purpose of self-promotion, as you knew one response would allow you to follow-up with your little self-promotional blurb. You could have posted your status in your initial post, instead of making it out to be a sufferer looking for information about it.

 

[Jeffrey Davila]

I invite you to read my first post again. It was not intended to mislead especially since I am a veteran and happen to be a therapist as well. I am not the enemy and this was not a promotion. I have no idea where people are in this forum and I was only qualifying my reasons for the inquiry. LENS has proven to be a very powerful tool especially for PTSD and TBI. Since the service we provide is free of charge to vets, I was seeking further information before expanding my reach to more veterans. I thought this might be an appropriate place to find someone that may have had experience with LENS. The response I got was invaluable and will help me and others in being especially mindful in how we asses and treat veterans that are looking for help. When I returned from Vietnam we didn't have internet with forums for vets. We didn't have PTSD. How fortunate your are to have any of this and how blessed I feel have finally gotten relief.

 

[matthios]

So you're doing market research... that makes it all better?

I don't see how you being a veteran applies to your alleged lack of intent to mislead. As a therapist, you should be absolutely aware of how and why your initial post is misleading. I suppose anyone can hang a shingle these days.

I invite you to read my first post again.

How fortunate your are to have any of this and how blessed I feel have finally gotten relief.

I invite you to read your latest and realize how utterly condescending and patronizing it sounds. As a therapist, you should be acutely aware.

I really hope you didn't bother using your real name (or that your name is completely buried in your company's/practice's publicity), because this is the sort of thing that'll absolutely tank a professional reputation.

 

[Jeffrey Davila]

Actually I hold dual graduate degrees in both clinical psychology as well as transpersonal psychology. I have been licensed for over 30 years, raised a family, and now enjoy 2 practices.

<Edited by Anthony>

I did use my real name and I doubt it will ruin my reputation since I'm at the end of my game. Market research couldn't be further from the truth. You are really missing the point. I was asking in earnest to get feedback about who had experienced LENS and what did they notice. I don't mean to be condescending and I'm sorry that's your interpretation. There was no internet when I returned from Vietnam and no PTSD - What's condescending about that? I do feel fortunate to be where I am compared to what might have happened. Of all the responses yours was certainly a surprise.
Peace,
Jeffrey

 

[Jeffrey Davila]

Okay, I'm making dinner and realizing I am new to this forum and already I've started ticking people off. Let me say that I'm sorry for being condescending, pompous, and possibly a jerk. I really wanted to connect and hear about who had done the LENS so I could learn and be a better at providing service. I'm sorry for all the flap and promise to be more quite and not ask misleading questions without first stating my purpose.

 

[anthony]

Please read site rules, as self-promotion will see you banned. Zero self-promotion or advertising allowed on this forum as per rules.

Discuss all you want, ask questions from members all you want, but do so without self promotion. Do so very honestly and openly. You are borderline right now with it, and I am reminding you only, due to this sites zero tolerance for it.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

I feel very self-promoted upon. You are here to spread a treatment as a practitioner, not as a sufferer, although you are also a sufferer.

Was it word play when you mentioned an undiagnosed TBI? Well, I have had multiple head injuries, but they are not TBI.

I spoke as a sufferer who had my treatment take a wrong turn. Your response is typical of those pushing the protocol. Either blame a bad practitioner or blame the patient. Nobody ever faults the treatment itself.

I cant stop anyone from reading my posts, but I will protect myself from being a guinea pig in light of the fact that what I have to say will simply be dismissed as an anomaly, as those in power preach that the treatment has no side effects.

As for the lens not penetrating the skull? If it didn't penetrate the skull it would be ineffective as the whole point of Neurofeedback is to alter brainwave patterns.

As this treatment becomes more well known, more people will speak out against it. It's only a matter of time. Regulation is crucial. I feel sorry for those who's lives have permanently been worsened because of these treatments.

I won't be posting again. You're here to promote Neurofeedback and I'm here to support carers and sufferers.

 

[ChattyKathy]

Solara,
How are you doing now?

 

[Fsand]

I feel very self-promoted upon. You are here to spread a treatment as a practitioner, not as a sufferer...

Hi,

I realize this thread is old but I just came upon it and wanted to ask you how you recovered following your bad experience with LENS. I'm asking because I recently had a horrible experience with it as well and want to know if there's anything I can do to help with the recovery. Thank you for sharing your experience. I'm in agreement with you about much more research needing to be done regarding these kinds of interventions.

Best,
Faryn