Military Conditioning (Anger/Aggression)

[anthony]

Phil, it doesn't go away by itself mate, but with a some good old education and hard work on your part, yes, you can pretty much rid the majority of it.

Now you're thinking... were do I begin?

Well... the beginning is that you're here, but now you need to start telling us why your angry. Seriously Phil, I can help you get rid of a whole lot of your anger... you are in the right place. You are going to get pissed off at times, even pissed at me, have no doubt, but if you keep at this your going to be a whole new person again... the person you want to be.

 

[Matt218]

I've seen it first hand both as a child and as someone with the issue. My dad did some hush-hush work during Vietnam that he has never talked about, but I know he has done some things that messed with his head. I saw him get confronted by 3 guys at a bar we stopped at on a road trip to use the bathroom. I was 8 or 9, and watched him, in about 3 or 4 seconds, put down 3 fairly built bikers who had a problem with "passer through's" or something along those lines. He said nothing after the fact, and I don't think my Mom ever knew.

When I got back from Afghanistan, me and a buddy who joined with me were drinking at his house. (He was deployed after me with a different unit, but we were both home on leave at the same time) and some dude started getting out of control and shoved his cousin, who is like a sister to me. My buddy knew I was getting amped up, and he told the dude he should probably leave because "I can't tell you what Matt might do, he's war-crazy" (slightly teasing me, and trying to get the kid to stop) He came up about 5 feet from me, and started talking about how he was "gonna kill me". I snapped. I stepped closer, he pushed me, and I punched him about 4 or 5 times in the face and neck. He dropped to the ground and I got on his back, and began fighting with him on the ground. I kneed him in the face about 3 times, punched him in his face and kidneys about 6 or 7 more times, then choked him out. My buddy called the cops, and homeboy sprawled out the front of the house, and began fighting with my buddy. The cops rolled up, me and my buddy are covered in blood, I'm visibly amped up pacing back and forth. Homeboy took off running as he had warrants, and the cops laughed about how stupid he was for messing with two dudes from the Army.

To this day I will kill that kid if I ever see him again, yet I flipped out more than I ever have.

I was never an aggressive person by nature, I would talk someone down before getting physical, but I just stopped bothering.

 

[anthony]

Matt... talking people down isn't a bad thing still though mate... I used to be like that, hated fighting, same deal as you and most others... Army, conflict, fight more... did a lot of bad things, but now I also realise that there are just some real dicks in the world, but unless they literally threaten me or I feel extremely threatened, I just leave them alone. Looking at what you said above, I don't believe you have turned violent really... sure, your training helps, but this guy pushed a chick... and its just not right to hit or push women period, we all know that one. He provoked you and threatened you... does that make you violent under that circumstance? No. Honestly, I think you're actually doing alright, otherwise you would have been on top of him from the moment he pushed her. If you just clocked the guy without reason, then that is something you would have to get under control real quick... but that's not the case from what you explained above. I don't justify, I call it as I see it.

 

[Nate1]

I find that the military conditioning has given this battlemind that I jump in to, and I can't turn it off.
How is it that a person can go to work and next thing you know it is time to go home but you don't know what you have gotten done that day because your brain disconnects from everything around you? Well I know what that feels like and I can get a lot done but never know how it all gets done and I get that great pat on the back with a good job, yes it feels good to get that pat on the back but at what costs. I go home drain out and have a hard time connecting or being able to stay with anything so I turn to the TV and turn in to a vegetable or sleep the afternoon away. What kind of life is that for a loving wife or 4 of the best kids in the world?
What puts me in to the battlemind? I have no idea at this point what puts me there but most of the time once I know I am in that state of mind I find I can come back from it until the next day. I have tryed the getting up every 15 minutes and walking away from the desk but that doesn't because as I am walking around I find myself just thinking about what else I have to do, I really feel that this new position I have been put in to isn't going to help because there is only me and a Warrant that is never there by the looks of it so it will be me. That will okay because I will be working for myself but I am only on half days but feel like they are trying to push me into full days. I think the uniform helps drive me into that disconnecting and to focus on the job at hand because if I didn't get it done someone else would have to pick up my slack and I don't want anyone to have to pick after me. But on the other hand I hate fallowing up someone to pick up there slack and I think that is what I will be doing in this job and what I was doing in my last position. What should I do? Where should I turn?

 

[Jimmy1]

Mate, as you know none of us are really qualified to technically give you an answer, and some of your questions might not have answers, they just are.

I suffered similar to you when I returned from Iraq in 2006. They promoted me to Warrant and shoved me in an office out of harms way. To this day, I still have no idea on what I did or if I actually completed anything. The battlemind you are talking about can be a couple of things; however, what your describing sounds like 'disassociation'. I call it off with the pixies.

I can be driving along and all of a sudden I am there and do not remember the trip (scary). I can also be in the lounge watching the idiot box and my son can have a conversation which I cannot remember.

I was at my girlfriends the other day, laying on her bed. She said my eyes were wide open so she laid down next to me and started reading her magazine. The said I spoke so she answered me. I apparently jumped out of my skin and told her she scared the shit out of me.

Here is a definition for you.

Dissociation is a partial or complete disruption of the normal integration of a person’s conscious or psychological functioning. Dissociation can be a response to trauma or drugs and perhaps allows the mind to distance itself from experiences that are too much for the psyche to process at that time. Dissociative disruptions can affect any aspect of a person’s functioning

As for your work, I attribute it to your training. If you remember basic training, you can strip a weapon blindfolded.
It's the way the military train you to do anything without questioning and to perfection.

This is all just my opinion, hope it helps.

Jimmy

 

[Nate1]

Thanks Jimmy that does help.

 

[femaleveteran]

Not sure who is who here or what war you were in. I can honeslt say that I served in a combat zone, the same one being Iraq. I also did a tour with NATO in Kosovo in 2001. I got to watch NATO bombers destroy a lot of shit It is often hard to talk to other vets about my experiences because they either do not believe me or they just do not care because they are positive that their trauma was even worse. Right now I say, your sisters need you. If any of you were over there then you know there are some of us female sodiers, marines, sailors, air, the same, female and male who have sacrificed something for the betterment of this war. WMD's may not have been produced but was there any question that there was Al-Quaeda and the Taliban in Iraq? And did we kill the major figures of these terrorist organizations as we should have. Was a rehearsed bomb attack for Washington, D.C. not averted? Was there not a bomb of the same scenario not averted in NY City.. We did not kill the mastermind, but we are putting a serious dent in his work. Eventually, there will be a time when his works will be the only casualties, The best way to kill a devil is to do it in full view of the rightous, and these people are the closest friends we have.

 

[femaleveteran]

Try getting promoted to WO2 when you have a leg that does not work? Truth is I made the most of it until I just wasnt
"Hard Core" anough to finish....but then that is what medical boarding is for.

 

[femaleveteran]

How badly I want to use right now.

I do not take my Clonipin every day. That way it leavse me with extra pills so I can fell completely relaxed as if nothing bothers me. As a matter of fact the only things I am into is photograghy and then reciting poetry. The rest of the time I look forward to the one day I can get high since they watch in these forum
I can feel safer opening up to one of your from the docks because I have gotten to know you. I wouldnt have it any other way....I just cannot get rnough dope to do that. This life is desprate, Everyday is a day spent trying to stay alive..I can take a bath in a river but then I will get arrested.....for bathing in the river. They canll us the unwashed masses and maybe they are correct. It is time to drop all the bullshit. Maybe like others we should make Bob Marly, Cousteau, and the freedivers of Hawaii the real stars of this show. I coulod have done nothing without all thsoe characters.

 

[abnvet]

Anger/Aggression @#$%

Oh yes! The military did a fine job conditioning me as I went through schools and off to war. But where were they and what did they do when I returned home from war?....Nothing. I was given a briefing and a 3 day pass to spend with my family and then if was back to work --> as if nothing had happened for the past 10 months....We all tried to fit back into the regular schedule and avoided talking about our feelings. I took these feelings home and couldn't talk with my wife (1st wife) and was constantly angry that I couldn't get back to normalcy. I later divorced and went through some problems with medicine,etc. I really didn't find any management until years later. I visited civilian counseling and still do and has helped me come to some understanding of what is going on. Do I have anger still --> oh yes I do and know now to walk away from situations to cool down and take time........

 

[femaleveteran]

I agree with you on the fact that the military does not do a very good job on debriefing anyone when they get back from a combat zone. I was attached to the XVIII ABN Corps and went to bosnia with them in 1994 and then I went to kosovo in 2001 with my unit from the 82nd, the 407th FSB and then of course I did my three and a half tours in Iraq and I never got more than about a twenty minute talk about "Do not drive too fast, Do not drink and drive, Do not abuse your family members and then have a nice weekend pass before coming back to work in three days". Aside from that I never heard a word about any PTSD symptoms like what to watch for and what to even expect.

The military likes machines and as long as you behave like a machine they will not think twice about using you up until there is nothing left to use up. Once you show a little bit of weakness or fatigue though and all of a sudden you are no longer fit to serve and that makes you useless. They do not want to know what they can do to help you or what they can do to prevent you from feeling like a useless piece of crap. All they want to know is if you can still do your job and if you cannnot then step aside and let them find someone who can. After all the mission comes first...at least that is how I was taught. I mean I guess I cannot blame the military entirely. All this was made pretty clear to me the first time I ever deployed to a conflict zone (with the UN peacekeepers in 1994 to Haiti).

What is odd is that there was a shooting at Ft. Bragg in 1995 where a guy, Sgt. William Kreutzer, started shooting at all of us who were getting ready to go for a Mission Assumption Run with the entire 2nd brigade Task Force and he ended up killing an officer, and he shot up 18 other people -- five of whom were in my BN. I was standding next to three of them and if they had not been standing where they were I would have gotten hit three times. This guy who shot at all of us though had been to the troop mental health clinic on something like four separate occassions and had threatened to do something exactly like what he did. They simply chose to not take him seriously. After the shooting word was that they kept sending him back to his unit saying that he was just making threats looking for "attention". There lack of care got a man with 8 children killed and several of the other guys who got shot wound up with life altering disabilities and had to leave the military. Most of the guys recovered okay but still.....the military because they did not take this guy Kreutzer seriously caused the drastic alteration of several people's lives. And you know what, that morning of the shooting we had a formation after the dust settled and they told us simply to go to work and they had caught the guy and they told us there would be a memorial service for Captain Badger (he was promoted posthumously to Major and they renamed Towle Stadium for him....fat consolation as I would imagine he would have rather stayed ALIVE). Other than that none of oour leadership had anything to say at all. We all were at work by 9am and that was that. Not even the chaplain came to talk to any of us to see how we were doing. All I remember is one sergeant saying that if the Division Commander had been there to run with us that morning he would have been totally disappointed because we all ran once we realiized we were getting shot at. What the hell would they have expected us to do -- just stand there like a bunch of range pop-up targets and get shot at and not move a muscle? Were we supposed to maintain some type of wierd military "bearing" while being shot at wearing nothing but our PT uniform and running shoes? the whole thing was simply surreal.

I guess my point is that the millitary does not and never really has handled any type of trauma very well when it comes to the average soldier whether it is a combat related trauma or some other trauma like a training accident or something like that. I feel like I gave so much of my life to the military and then when I got injured in Iraq and was no longer of any use to them, they kept me around long enough to get my butt out of the hospital and then they did not want to hear from me again. So yeah I feel a little bit of anger about that. I was always taught, especiallly once i became an NCO and had soldiers of my own, that it was my duty to take care of my soldiers and I took that task seriously. I bought soldiers and their new wives groceries when they first got married if they were short on money. All my soldiers knew they could call me any time of the night and I would come and get them at any of the strip clubs on Bragg Blvd if they were too drunk to drive....never a question asked. If we had hot chow in the field they always went ahead of me in the line. I mean I know I took care of my people and I am damn proud of that. However I admit I have an inordinate amount of anger towards the Army because I do not feel like they have really taken much care of me during the last few months since my PSTD symptoms got really bad.

I also want to apologize right now for my posts earlier in this thread. I think I took an extra Clonapin the night I posted that stuff and even I do not know what I was talking about. I know I had a terrible headache that night and I know I took meds but man until I was just reading through the thread I had no idea I had even posted anything that night. Anyway I apologize because nothing I wrote made a bit of sense and I also thank the moderators for not bouncing my arse right off this forum for posting such a bucnh of nonsense.

Anyway, I really liked what you said about the military training you up so well to leave for war but when it came to coming home and adjusting back to life at home they do nothing. I felt like a blind person trying to feel my way back into the real world.

Anyway, again I am sorry for the earlier posts...I was really messed up that night because like I said I do not even remember writing any of that stuff. I am really sorry about it.

Have a good'n ya'll.
Dawn

 

[Nate1]

The military likes machines and as long as you behave like a machine they will not think twice about using you up until there is nothing left to use up. Once you show a little bit of weakness or fatigue though and all of a sudden you are no longer fit to serve and that makes you useless. They do not want to know what they can do to help you or what they can do to prevent you from feeling like a useless piece of crap. All they want to know is if you can still do your job and if you cannnot then step aside and let them find someone who can. After all the mission comes first...at least that is how I was taught

This statement is so very true.