Most Controversial Post You've Ever Read

[Ufu]

Well if she was all over the guy and leading him to the bedroom, was it rape?

Can be.

Say he wanted to film her & she refused, or he wanted to choke her & she refused, or he wanted to anything ...and. she. refused.? That is when it becomes rape. She has the absolute right -as does he- to stop midstride. Stand up. Get dressed. And walk out. Not allowed to? Smashed into a door, knife pulled, overpowered, threatened, forced? It stops being sex, and becomes rape. And, yes, it can change in a moment. Tell the wrong person "no" and watch them switch from someone you were happily sexing around with into a violent and bloody nightmare in the blink of an eye. Things can get dark fast.

Conversely? I've been in the room. Hotel parties. Absolute, no question about it, consensual sex. As one of my fav quotes of all time "Aren't we setting the bar a little low with consent? Shouldn't we be aiming for enthusiasm???", it was in all ways very highly consensual. And then the next morning? Or a week later after friends/ parents/ etc. -who weren't there- convincing them? Regretted for whatever reason (cheated on a boyfriend, was going to save themselves for marriage -or true love- but had just discovered tequila, etc.), and bam! false rape allegations. :mad: Beyond infuriating. And is very much part of why when people come on here (or in real life) & say "But I would never cheat on my boyfriend" or similar, no. I don't immediately jump on the bandwagon that any sex you don't like after the fact is rape. Regret-sex is not rape. Bad sex is not rape. Sometimes feeling guilty & like crap about yourself is actually earned, cause you done f*cked up. I catch a lot of hell for that perspective, and I really don't care. There are times when people are questioning whether or not something was rape & there is no bones about it, definitely rape. There are times when people are questioning whether or not it was rape, and it's murky at best. And there are times when, no. That's not rape. It just isn't.

Just because someone is questioning whether or not something was rape doesn't make it rape. & Just because something may start out consensual doesn't mean it cannot -very easily- become rape.

"no means no even if I am all over the guy, get naked and put a welcome sign on my nether regions" ......this kind of thinking needs to stop. We apply it to NOTHING else, just sex. It's not actually a logical argument. And I really do think it's stupid to think that we can give a million signs for wanting something and then act like a butt-hurt victim when we actually get what we were indicating we wanted.

Apply this logic to anything BUT sex and people will laugh at you.

Actually we do.

You can pay for a cab ride (I want it! I want a ride! I'll pay you for a ride! Pick me up! Pick me up!), but if after you've *willingly* gotten into the cab; the cabbie locks the doors, refuses to let you out, takes you someplace you don't want to go? Then it becomes abduction.

You can invite someone into your home. (Smile! Hug! So happy to see you!) But then they don't leave when asked to? At the very least it becomes trespassing.

You can cheerfully give your consent for your child to go to a friends house, (I'm so glad you guys could watch Suzy for me this afternoon! You're the best!) but then the "friends" won't return them? Kidnapping.

Loan a friend a car, (I'm just so happy I could help! No, no, it's no trouble at all, I really feel good being able to do this for you! Please. Take it.) & they take off with it & refuse to return it? Grand theft.

You can ask someone to start a fire in your fireplace. The moment they decide to set your living room on fire? Arson.

I could go on & on.

The point of these and dozens and dozens of other crimes is that consent -once given- is not irrevocable. We have the right to both set & enforce limits on ourselves, our property, and our areas of responsibility (like our children).

 

[Eniw]

I don't even smile at men in case they get the wrong idea. And yes, all humans have the right to say stop at any time they want to stop and the other person needs to accept that. You wouldn't force food down someones throat if they said they don't want anymore or feel ill, would you?!

 

[Afede]

I don't even smile at men in case they get the wrong idea. And yes, all humans have the right to say stop at any time the...

Nobody knows what happened behind those doors. Unless you do....you have no leg to stand on

 

[Jowim]

I don't think this guy should be branded a rapist.

It's not up to you. It is up to a jury and a judge. With evidence. All you know is what the papers told you. You are making assumptions based on hearsay. How can you say that you know what that woman went through? And still goes through, for that matter?

 

[Awizon]

Nobody knows what happened behind those doors. Unless you do....you have no leg to stand on

I'm not sure what you mean?

 

[Umoca]

It's not up to you. It is up to a jury and a judge. With evidence. All you know is what the papers told you. You are...

Ok you have no idea what I'm talking about! Please pay attention because this is getting annoyingly old.

I was referring to the situation where the girl was at a party, was all over him, and dragged him into the bedroom. THERE WAS NO JURY, THERE WAS NO TRIAL! That woman trashed his name all around town and his life there is ruined.

This story was mentioned earlier in the post.

LMAO, there was nothing in the papers. Good god, PAY ATTENTION and stop twisting what people say.

This thread is getting annoying because everyone just twists it all around.

Just stop arguing with me until you know what you're talking about. Seriously.

 

[Orugic]

Just a general reminder from page one...

There are things here to discuss. The discussion is going to get heated. Posters who cannot handle this topic should leave it alone. We won't hesitate to thread-ban. You are anonymous to each other, but not to administrators.

Given the subject, I am inclined to agree with this on the whole...

It turns out that the "most controversial post" actually turned into a productive conversation.

But if you are finding the thread hard to handle, please give yourself a break from it.

digger

 

[Korima]

I get disgusted when people automatically assume the guy is guilty scum when they hear stories like this.

People need to take personal responsibility. It's not fair to give so many signals of wanting sex and then scream rape when you actually got what you indicated you wanted.

Let's be honest. Women get a free pass on this, because everyone thinks men are rapists and women are victims, never the other way around. If two kids get drunk and have sex, guess which one is the rapist? Regardless of what the circumstances actually were, ONLY the male partner will be prosecuted, kicked out of university, socially shunned, or whatever bad things result.

It's the same with domestic violence. If you're a man and your female partner is beating you up, you'd better never call the cops because it will be you that will be riding in that police car. (Don't believe me? Look up the Duluth Model. That's the policing standard many communities use in the United States.)

Forty-five years of feminism have gotten us to this point. Certainly something needed to be done about rape and domestic abuse, but the line has been crossed and now to be a man means that you are assumed to be a rapist, or at least a potential rapist. Many universities now specifically teach male first year students that they will rape someone, and female first year students that they will be raped as a matter of course. "Teach men not to rape" is the mantra.

Rapists rape. Rapists can be men OR women. Until recently, the FBI never included men in the rape stats, because it was assumed men couldn't be raped. We have feminism to thank for that, too.

Yes, rape and sexual assault against women is and continues to be a serious problem. But feminists assume sexual assault is a zero-sum game. Just because women are raped doesn't mean that men aren't also raped. Just because women are raped doesn't make all men default rapists.

You know who has the largest rate of domestic violence in the U.S.? Lesbian couples. You know why no one knows that? Because there's no man to blame.

 

[Fajes]

"Aren't we setting the bar a little low with consent? Shouldn't we be aiming for enthusiasm???"

^ ^ ^ ^
That, right there. That's where the bar ought to be set. Why would you even WANT to have sex with someone who wasn't enthusiastic? That's a real question. Think about it.

 

[Ipevi]

I'd like to make a suggestion on this topic of false accusations that I think people that have been abused and have PTSD are more likely to reexperince the feeling of violation during normal sex. I so often read of people feeling pressured coerced etc and they give in and then say they felt raped. I think the pressure and coercion causes PTSD sufferers to experience a frozen/dissociation type experience where they feel they can't say no and they live through a sexual violation that may or may not have been an intentional violation. The partner may not even notice these subtle cues. it has been proven then men have a much harder time distinguishing emotions from facial expressions and tone. They aren't hard wired for the socialization the way women are. It's very complex.
The person feeling violated definitely suffers from legitimate feelings, but are the feelings a true representation of the present situation or a reenactment from the past? I am speaking from experience that I have absolutely flipped out and felt assaulted during normal sex with a normal guy. It felt so real to me and took weeks to understand it was a flashback.
I wish rape was black and white, but it really isn't. There is personal responsibility on both sides. Men need to learn to be more careful with the amount of pressure and coercion. There is a physical power difference so when women use pressure and coercion it is not the same as when men do it. Men need to respect the power they innately have.

 

[Wozec]

This thread is getting annoying because everyone just twists it all around.

Enjoy your dance with anger. I hope it gets you where you want it to.

Out.

 

[Tovi]

I'd like to make a suggestion on this topic of false accusations that I think people that have been abused and have PTSD are more likely to reexperince the feeling of violation during normal sex. I so often read of people feeling pressured coerced etc and they give in and then say they felt raped. I think the pressure and coercion causes PTSD sufferers to experience a frozen/dissociation type experience where they feel they can't say no and they live through a sexual violation that may or may not have been an intentional violation. .

Thank you! You just put into words something that's worried me for years but didn't know how to explain.