My Boyfriend Is Living In A Long Term Traumatic Situation

[EJBJane]

I met my boyfriend in February, we were really in love. However since then I have gotten to know him a bit better and realize this realtionship is going to test the bounderies of what I am capable to accept. His Dad was diagnosed with ALS (Lou Gherigs Disease) 13 years ago. Dad lies smack in the middle of the living room/kitchen of his parents house like a plant with no way to communicate except for eye movement. The first time I met his Mom I walked in there completely unprepared to be faced with the reality of day to day life of these people. 2 years ago my boyfriends girlfriend left him (they had been together over 15 years) and a series of deaths in the family took away his grandparents who he was very close to, then last year he contracted hepititus C, which through heavy experimental treatments he got over.

I am sort of appreciative that he has allowed me in his life, and I know so much in such a short time about his private life to take me in his trust like that must have been very scary. However about a month in the relationship I saw how he disrespected his mom, he literally never helps around the house, he lets her do all the work and comes in just to have dinner or have her take care of his dogs (he has two huge dogs) when he goes out. And he goes out all the time, he packs his days with so many obligations and activities it would make anybody wonder where he gets his energy, anything not to have to think about the bad stuff.

He seems very selfish, in fact skin crawling egocentricity and disrespect for the people that love him most, like me and his mom. The disrespect comes in the form of lying and hiding himself when he is needed. I feel sort of manipulated into this relationship but I understand why he chose me as I have had 10 years of therapy for PTSD myself, I am also 8 years older. He loves his Dad a lot, the man has asked for euthanasia but even though my boyfriend can grant it, he doesn't because his mom doesn't want it.

He sometimes says he wants me to stay out of his private life but at the same time he makes me live in it, he is extremely resentful if I call him out on his lies but he doesn't leave, he goes into his cave so to speak and waits it out. I have gotten him to see a therapist from September onward. His mom is unimaginably grateful to me for being hard on him, communicating with him and standing my ground and I can see why but I feel it's not always my place and it makes me feel uncomfortable. I tell him everything, if she speaks to me when he isn't there, I always remain honest even if I know he doesn't like it. I call him on his behavior, I demonstrate his actions have consequences.

However much I know, what I see is still heartbreaking and it hurts me a lot to take the tough love route with him. My question really is, am I doing the right thing by being hard on him? It makes me feel so heartless. I wonder if my actions just drive him away, I don't know. At the moment he isn't speaking to me again because he is mad at me once again, which I am sort of getting used to.

 

[Friday]

He sounds more like your son than your boyfriend.

Heck... I don't even manipulate my son that much, and as his mom, that's part of my job (correcting his behavior, ignoring his wishes / aka mine trump his when I view his to be incorrect, engineering situations for him to learn in, etc.).

 

[EJBJane]

LOL yep,. I asked him that very same thing last weekend: "..did I wake up one day as your mom?" Him and her, they need each other badly cause she takes care of the dad. I don't think she has left the house in years.

 

[Chava]

You say he is selfish, has "skin-crawling egoentricity", and is disrespectful towards you. Why are you dating him? Agreed, it sounds like you are mothering him. And with the age difference, depending on where that puts him, he probably is relatively selfish and you've put yourself in the role of helping him 'grow up'. I can't answer if you're being too hard on him or not because I'm a little confused about your roles.

His story sounds hard, sad, and full of loss. I'm not sure it's the stress that makes up ptsd. Was he diagnoised with PTSD? Depending on his age, being out and busy a lot might be his attempt to individuate, separate some from his parents, and have his own life. He would hopefully find a way to help his family, but it's not selfish for young adults to want their own lives. It's normal. Maybe he doesn't want/need a 'parent' right now. ??

 

[EJBJane]

It may be harsh to say skincrawling egocentric (it flipped out, perhaps because I am pinpointing in my mind one certain thing), obviously this is my personal view and it should be seen in context of a situation. I shouldn't generalize. I have really different standards because I grew up in a household where money was always really tight and with an older sister so we had to share everything. He is an only child and Italian. I'm in fact American. He is 36 now. He lives around the corner from his mom, she does his laundry, she makes him food, there is never anything to eat at his house if I don't go out and buy it. I wouldn't be with him if there werent days that we have just magical times, which is mostly if we really stay away from his parents place or at my place and that just isn't possible all of the time.
I think he wants his own life, I want him to have his own life but he will never leave them. He is present, he gives his mom money, but he shows no empathy, he is always cynical to his mom, she thinks he hates her which I know isnt true at all and I told her that. However he shows very little emotion, doesn't feel affection, he wants to but he just can't. The only time he seems to enjoy himself truly is when he is with me and it is SO good when he does that. We work on the affection part together and he is open to it but I'm scared. The doctor told his mom, he is a ticking time bomb. If he shuts down too long or feels put in a corner I know he could break. I have backed off for now but I don't have a clue where his head is at right now.
God, I so really don't want to be his parent figure, it would kill the attraction which is so big.

 

[Justmehere]

Wow, I am so sorry to hear about what your boyfriend is dealing with. This sounds very rough! My heart goes out to you. I'm going to try to give feedback on this, but I'm not sure how. What I have to say might sound harsh, but I don't mean it that way at all. I'm highly concerned.

He seems very selfish, in fact skin crawling egocentricity and disrespect for the people that love him most, like me and his mom. The disrespect comes in the form of lying and hiding himself when he is needed.

You describe his behaviors as selfish, and maybe they are. His behaviors could be a sign of how overwhelmed he is by the pain his loved ones are in, and a sign that he doesn't know how to handle it all. Of course he has lots of obligations away from the house. I would too. Part of it is being a grown 36 year old man, and part of it is because it's an overwhelming situation at his parents house. Plus, he could be very torn between wanting to be able to help, and not being able help. He's probably very insecure because of it, and in his insecurity, he has probably developed a number of defense mechanisms like lying and avoidance.

NONE of this to say that there is any excuse for his behavior.

If he is being selfish, I think he would stop financially supporting them or spending so much time with two very incapacitated parents. It's is not worth the possible "gain" of having his laundry done and his dogs taken care of. Unless he is a complete psychopath or narcissist. He could be either of those. In which case, you shouldn't be dating him anyhow. If he is making your skin crawl, then maybe that is a big warning flag that you should listen to.

It's a tremendously difficult and awful situation either way. I would feel overwhelmed by the situation if I was dating a guy going through this myself. I'm a little concerned about how much you feel driven to care for them all. It makes sense why you feel like that, but it might be more than you should be taking on.

He sometimes says he wants me to stay out of his private life but at the same time he makes me live in it,

How does he MAKE you live in it? I am actually concerned about him making you do anything, especially if he already shows a pattern of skin-crawlingly selfish behavior. If he is threatening you to pressure you be involved in his private life, then you need to get out of the relationship ASAP. If you simply feel like you are emotionally compelled to be involved, then this might be a place where you need to hold stronger boundaries. To tell him things like you won't talk about his family situation right now. (It is ok to say that!) Otherwise, if he is sharing his private life with you by telling you about it, and you are not telling him to stop sharing it with you, then I don't see how he is making you or manipulating you into being involved. And if he is making or manipulating you into being involved, then that's another red flag.

You have been together for 6 months and you do already sound very much like his mom rather than a romantic partner in life. You have listed a lot of ways HE could change, but in the end, you can't change him. You talk about how the relationship is testing the limits of what you can accept, and then you list many ways you are have been trying to change a situation that has been in place long before you met him - for 13 years in fact.

he is extremely resentful if I call him out on his lies but he doesn't leave, he goes into his cave so to speak and waits it out. I have gotten him to see a therapist from September onward. His mom is unimaginably grateful to me for being hard on him, communicating with him and standing my ground and I can see why but I feel it's not always my place and it makes me feel uncomfortable. I tell him everything, if she speaks to me when he isn't there, I always remain honest even if I know he doesn't like it. I call him on his behavior, I demonstrate his actions have consequences.

His mom probably really likes you taking on these mothering responsibilities because it's too hard for her to do it herself right now... plus, he is a grown man who should be past the stage of needing such mothering. He also could be transferring some of the anger he might have towards his mother on to his older girlfriend who is acting more like a mother/caretaker figure than a romantic partner in life.

Stress, especially traumatic stress, on a less-than-healthy family systems tends to cause people to take on certain roles. It sounds like he is taking on the role of observer/distancer. It sounds like you have taken on the role of caretaker.

He lives around the corner from his mom, she does his laundry, she makes him food, there is never anything to eat at his house if I don't go out and buy it.

There are several reasons why you sound very much like you are in a caretaker role. One of the hallmarks of being a caretaker is thinking that "If I don't do it, no one will." If you don't buy them food, they would do what they have done for the past 13 years. It is a valiant effort on your part to try to help take care of the whole family, and I appreciate your tough love stance too, but maybe it's not very healthy for all of you.

I think he wants his own life, I want him to have his own life but he will never leave them. He is present, he gives his mom money, but he shows no empathy, he is always cynical to his mom, she thinks he hates her which I know isnt true at all and I told her that.

You are the new-ish girlfriend, and you don't need to be the one solving their mother-son relationship or helping his mom understand that her son loves him. They need to work out their own issues. He likely has been acting this way for a long time and his mother has likely been struggling with it for a long time. Let them face it. Preferably with a family therapist. You don't need to be the one to even get a family therapist involved.

My question really is, am I doing the right thing by being hard on him? It makes me feel so heartless. I wonder if my actions just drive him away, I don't know. At the moment he isn't speaking to me again because he is mad at me once again, which I am sort of getting used to.

I think encouraging him to get therapy was a very good idea. For the rest, I don't know. Your heart and desire to change how things are in the family system is admirable. It's also more than most humans without PTSD would take on. It's also very early on in the relationship. You describe him a lot like a frustrated parent would their wayward child. You do write of the "magical" times you have away from this stressed and traumatized family system, but it sounds like he spends a lot of time with them. While you accept that he's not going to leave them for you, you seem to be trying to change very entrenched long standing behaviors, and very early on in a romantic relationship.

I'm very concerned about all the red flags. The level of selfishness. The lack of empthay. The way he makes your skin crawl. And this:

The doctor told his mom, he is a ticking time bomb. If he shuts down too long or feels put in a corner I know he could break.

I'm concerned that you are involved in a possible trauma reennactment pattern with him. You and him have taken on various roles common in traumatized families. You feel compelled to help, manipulated, sound very resentful, and yet you stay. While you don't describe severe abuse, but you sound much like an abused woman who keeps going back to the abuser. Something about the way you describe him makes my own skin crawl. I can't explain it well, it just concerns me for you.

And now your new-ish boyfriend has been described by a doctor as a ticking time bomb. He stuck in a traumatizing situation with no signs of significant change happening anytime soon.

I don't think this is so much of a matter of if you being too hard on him, and if that is right or wrong to do. I think this is more of a matter of needing to reconsider if you should be in this relationship right now. I could be wrong, and either way, I do hope things improve soon.

 

[KwanYingirl]

ALS is running this family. Right there in full view lies his father who everyone knows is dying. When he passes on, this man/child will no doubt feel compelled to take care of the mother who he is taking advantage of. Is there any evidence that he helps with his Dads needs or is it all on the Mom to do?

Does he give her respite so she can visit friends or take in a movie or something? Take a good look at how he has been allowed to treat his mother, because he will treat you the same way.

 

[Friday]

Mmmmm... Part of this, too, is cultural norms & expectations. Things at will be the same (or worse) as treatment progresses. When I thought you were Italian complaining about another Italian I thought "Whoa. That's bad." But if it's a cross-cultural affair there are a lot of things that are simply not going to change, unless he disagrees with them. Just a few: (a lot that you probably know)

When I lived in Rome...
- No-one had food in the house, most of the time. A lot of the flats don't even have a kitchen. You eat out, or stop by the market on your way home. This isn't true in all cities/regions (indoor cooking was illegal in Rome for centuries, recent centuries), but there is a general : buy only what you're going to eat today, or turn into tomorrow's leftovers, throughout most regions. Up until very recently, food was dirt cheap in Rome. I could eat out with my son for every meal, eat well, for less than 10€ total. Primi, secundo, the works/ meals done properly. For practically nothing (away from tourist areas). Food has doubled in price a couple times since I lived there. Visiting has always been a shock to my pocketbook. Caccio el pepe for how much? Enzo! Am I a tourist? How long have you known me?

- You were expected to stop by your mama's house (if male) to be fed at least once a day, if you move out at all. If female, at least once a week, if you didn't come help cook daily. Conversely, if you're a parent, you expect to be feeding your children until they're married. Oftentimes, they live with you until married. After they're married, you still expect to be cooking &/or feeding them on a regular basis. Just not as often. Ditto, a lot of chores are preformed for boys. Mama or his sisters will come over to do his laundry, leave meals, clean, and generally berate him.

- A smack on the knuckles, and general berating, and threats to take such and such to the priest / dire warnings about the state of your or their soul = I love you.

- Being overly thankful = an insult / hurts people's feelings (as if you're a guest and not family, as if you like the person instead of love them, or are paying them instead of can expect such effort as a matter of course.).

- Saying yes is a no no. There's this thing, that you've undoubtedly come across, where saying yes is an insult. You have to let people press you, to show their devotion to you, and your respect for them, before saying yes. Saying yes (or conversely not doing the no/yes dance). You immediately say si-si-si to strangers, cars, and anyone you don't particularly care about... But if you care about them? No-no-no. The longer you spend arguing. And the less you volunteer. There are exceptions, of course (everyone works out short-speak for emergencies and status).

 

[Sighs]

A friend of mine married an Italian man and has regretted it ever since. In keeping with his culture he insisted that she defer to his parents in all things - from where they lived, to what sort of wedding they had, to their children's names etc etc. When his mother was dying he insisted that my friend sit for hours in the hospital holding his mother's hand despite the fact that they shared no common language and his mother had made it very clear that she did not like nor accept my friend. Now that his mother has died he insists that they spend every Sunday visiting the grave - for hours - with two small children.

What's my point? He's not going to change. PTSD, his family dynamic or just his cultural background. Who cares why. It is what it is. You either love him as he is or get the hell out.

 

[EJBJane]

There are quite a few people who comment on the cultural aspect which is valid. I have lived and worked in Italy quite a while now and yes eating out is still really cheap compared to the US or any other European country for that matter..and delicious. I always say it's very hard to find anywhere you would eat badly here :-) Generally as a rule I don't date Italian men, I have heard too many stories like this one Sigh added above.

A friend of mine married an Italian man and has regretted it ever since.

However this one came upon my path and I actually loved hearing about all his plans to be independent from his family, travelling and speaking lots of languages, he is very social and outgoing, does volunteer work, donates blood, loves animals. All these extra curricular activities and longing for independence do make more sense to me now.

Does he give her respite so she can visit friends or take in a movie or something? Take a good look at how he has been allowed to treat his mother, because he will treat you the same way.

Like pulling teeth but he will if he has time, but he never has time, that's the way it goes. A lot of his activities are admirable ways to spend time serving society, you can't poke a whole in anything really.I think the dynamic between him and his mom is pretty screwed up. They will probably need to talk to the family therapist together at one point. The one they have is supposed to come in from time to time. He never really spoke to her in the past. He began to see reason when I said it wasn't ever going to work between anybody and him if he didn't figure out he is not okay.

but you sound much like an abused woman who keeps going back to the abuser

Could be, I once did, it's part of my own past issues. It does make me hyper sensitive to the red flags. I don't accept things easily anymore, in fact I suppose he sees me more like Lady Macbeth than Mary Poppins. He says he literally hates my tactics for getting my right. I think he hates more that I pick up on the stuff he thinks he can hide and confront him with it. It takes one to know one I suppose. I will ask, if you don't like what I say or do why don't you just break up with me? That's not happened yet.

 

[StarChild]

A friend of mine married an Italian man and has regretted it ever since.

When his mother was dying he insisted that my friend sit for hours in the hospital holding his mother's hand despite the fact that they shared no common language and his mother had made it very clear that she did not like nor accept my friend.

Hi @Sighs, from what I read in your post, this doesn't have to be equivalent to every Italians thinking and behaving. - I grew up around almost more Italian and Spanish people than my own locals, and such extreme behaviour's rather an exception than the usual way of thinking. To me, his whole thing sounds more as if this guy seems to have quite a few (control) and maybe machismo issues...

 

[EJBJane]

well..they are more control issues...but I think they stem from a general inability to feel normal empathy. He said in a cancer hospital, we were visiting and there was an old couple who you could see were very distressed, he says "why are those old people crying and complaining about their therapy, they should be happy there is a cure for their disease, so they have a bit of pain and they feel miserable, they should be positive and keep their energy"... That scares me.