Nightingale Complex Or Just Desperate?

[Petra Pan]

Oh yes, I know that behavior too, on the points where I think he knows he can't outright forbid me to do something, he uses emotional manipulation, trying to make me feel low or even guilty about how much he pays, or creating a bad atmosphere (I guess that is what acquiesce is) to make me not do the things he feels out of control of. When it was those thing, that I just couldn't 'put the finger on' what was wrong, I for a long time believed I, with my PTSD created all the bad stuff.
This outright forbidding and taking my phone and making up rules, clearly showing delusional and craziness, telling me I now have to try to be intimate even when I don't want to..is just what I needed to wake up and smell the codependent coffee!

 

[Dee Morris]

Okay sure. I guess I would call that friendship, not dating, but everyone has their own definition. Makes sense, I missed the nuances of what you meant in your earlier postings. It's great that you're upfront about what you're seeking in a partnership-of-some-kind. I meant no offence :oops:

To me friendship is platonic. Dating is more intimate and generally will involve sex.

 

[Anarchy]

@Dee Morris thanks for stating this thread.

I think co-dependency is something that we all need to be wary of, survivor and supporters alike, both in ourselves and in people we meet.

Feeling responsible for other people's behaviour and trying to control it is a sure way to end up feeling totally miserable. It's a behaviour that a good few of us have likely learned on our way to ending up here.

@Nicolette started a good thread about co-dependency a few years back, that I got a lot out of reading. It's locked now so unfortunately it can't be bumped up by new comments.
https://www.myptsd.com/threads/carers-co-dependency-information.8894/

 

[Wastinglight]

Many people date but don't want a serious relationship. I think that perhaps you assume that dating is futile unless you want a serious relationship. If you assume that everyone wants something serious then it's your problem for assuming, not the other person's problem for leading you on.

You are half right @Solara. I don't assume that dating is futile unless you want a serious relationship, but I personally don't date anyone unless I am intending to explore the possibility of a serious relationship with them. Why? Because I have tried just dating people casually in the past, when I wasn't really ready for a relationship, and I found that I always ended up hurting the other person as a result. I find it's often the case that in an uncommitted dating situation, one person will want more than the other is willing to give. And telling someone up front that you're not interested in anything serious won't necessarily prevent that from happening. Why? Because if someone is really into you, they will go along with it, but they will secretly be hoping that it will turn into something more. I've done it before, and I know of very many other people who have done it. And supporters section of this forum is littered with examples of people doing exactly that. And to be fair, sometimes it DOES turn into something more serious. So if you're crazy about someone, it's worth the risk. So I don't date casually because I consider the probability that I will hurt the other person to be very high. I would rather go without sex and intimacy than risk breaking someone's heart (assuming I'm certain that I don't want to take it further with that person). Been there, done that. It didn't feel right. Sure, admittedly if you are upfront and say that you're not up for something serious, then it's the other person's responsibility to take that on face value, but humans are not logical creatures - especially when it comes to matters of the heart.

This is just my personal opinion based on my experiences. Just as every post on this forum consists only of one person's opinion based on their own experiences and beliefs.

 

[Nico]

I'm not a sufferer, but I am someone who can't casually date similar to what @Wastinglight is saying. I was able to do that in college and in my 20's (at times was called a man eater), however having been hurt in my past by allowing myself to open up to men who later weren't ready to commit, I could never do that to someone. I don't know what's going on with my current relationship because I have been shut out 100% and out of nowhere, after my guy panicked. He never came out and said he was having PTSD symptoms...I had to figure that out on my own. All I knew was that maybe he did end things but couldn't tell me. So, I went on a date a few weeks ago. Let me tell you, I came home and cried. I know I am not the casual dating type, but I tried. I texted the guy telling him of my situation and that there's no way I could date anyone right now. My heart is still for the man I fell in love with before all this post deployment stuff and it's not a codependent thing because I have completely left him alone. I think it's also hard to casually date for me knowing how great love is.

With that said, there are plenty of people out there who are totally fine casually dating. I don't know how they do it, but kudos to them for meeting each others' needs. It is very important in the dating process to be upfront about what one is looking for. I wish more people did that with me through the years.

 

[Dee Morris]

To each his own. I'm personally not trying to be responsible for anyone's personal decisions but my own. Every guy I go out with is aware in advance where my head is. There's no deception involved and they, as well as I, have the option to go on about our day if we feel that we want more than the other is offering. It's called life. Not every person in your life is meant to be "the one" and by going into a date with the mindset that the relationship needs to be at least headed in a serious direction is just setting yourself up for disappointment. I think people place way too many expectations on their dating relationships. Not dating to avoid pain for either myself or someone else isn't enjoying life. It's hiding in a hole.

 

[Nico]

Totally hear ya @Dee Morris. I'm more the cautious dater when I was dating. Everyone has different desires in relationships.

 

[Sighs]

To come back to the Nightingale complex side of the thread - I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts. Assuming that people believe there is such a thing as a healthy supporter, as well as a co-dependent one - how do you tell which you are dealing with? As a sufferer how do you get healthy support and avoid unhealthy support? As a supporter how do you give healthy support and avoid enabling?

 

[Deleted member 1860]

@Sighs,

I very much believe there is a healthy supporter and a co-dependent supporter. I personally don't have much experience with a healthy supporter (partner), but I do have experience with the co-dependent variety. I do not believe that all supporters are merely co-dependent!

As a sufferer, it isn't easy to tell right away if a supporter is healthy or not. Many sufferers have received NO support, so when a co-dependent supporter comes along, we are blinded by the flashy lights of *support* (ha) and don't immediately recognize that it is a dysfunctional, manipulative kind of support at best.

I think that sufferers really do have to keep their eyes open and know what healthy support is vs. unhealthy support. At first, my guy seemed so supportive. He wanted to learn ALL about PTSD, asked me if there were books that he could read, etc. Of course I was thrilled, as nobody ever showed such an interest in helping me before! Honestly, it was a mutual friend of ours who first showed me the cracks in the façade. She told me that he treated me as a "project", something to fix. Of course, this all fits in with his own alcoholism issues (which he is in MAJOR denial of). Fortunately I knew a bit about codependency and alcoholism, so the pieces started to fit together for me pretty quickly. Someone without this existing knowledge may not realize that such support is indeed unhealthy.

After just one month he was telling me that the honeymoon period was over. (As if...) He said that it was now the time when the hard work began....Uhm, I'm sorry, but if things go south after just one month, I'm most definitely NOT hanging on! (I didn't....Things fell apart in July, the guy called me on New Years to profess his love for me yet again. I was having none of it.)

So I guess my answer is that a sufferer REALLY has to be in a good place or they will much more readily accept unhealthy support. You really have to trust your gut, and as soon as a red flag pops up, be willing to question it and even walk away. There are so many predators out there, so many people who use other people that they deem to be "weaker". They lure us in by pretending to care and nurture us when the truth is that they want us to stay in the weak and submissive role as they fear being cast aside if/when we become "strong" again.

 

[Dee Morris]

I believe not expecting every dating relationship to be serious goes a long way in keeping our judgment clear on who is a healthy supporter vs a co-dependent one. When we place unrealistic expectations on a relationship too soon, It's far easier to be caught up in the emotions of the relationship and overlook the warning signs of an unhealthy relationship.