Not Meant To Rehash

[UnKnown-Self]

I have a simple approach to responses, if anything about "me" is not short, sharp and to the point, then I am detracting from the thread.

While I do not believe @anthony you are directing this specifically at me. The reason I started the thread was because I feel I have done this. I am not saying that to have anyone say oh no Alice, just the opposite, I am trying to learn from it.
Part of living with PTSD is the struggle to learn to communicate effectively. This is something I struggle with in live interactions as well. I have a very difficult time reading social cues. I don't find with the ease that others do in timing and I find myself interrupting or making connections others don't and so I veer off topic when the connection is clear to me.
I will also look too deep or draw conclusions that very well are probably very accurate, there seems to be an unwritten rule of "such things aren't said out loud."
Recognizing certain things in action, tone, timing, body language and the reasons behind them is second nature to me. It was a skill developed to survive. That I see what I see now, while very well maybe true but my survival doesn't depend on keeping an eye on it or them. It's just the opposite. I have to recognize they are unhealthy for me not to spend any more time with them than absolutely necessary.

The stepping on others threads I try to handle by writing my response in notebook first and try to decide if it it something that would benefit the thread, is it for my diary or a separate thread altogether.
I'm not always successful because I have moments of being all over the place. I am not trying to belittle myself. I am trying to learn and this forum is a safe place for doing that. I also don't think anyone was pointing at me specifically but even if they were, It really doesn't matter, what matters is learning, growing and making changes for the better.

 

[anthony]

While I do not believe @anthony you are directing this specifically at me.

You would be correct, and I was no where near you actually in my thoughts on that one.

what matters is learning, growing and making changes for the better.

Bingo. And yes, communication is difficult. People think they can communicate effectively, but wow, just wow, is it a skill all of its own making to learn, let alone master. I just responded to another thread where my opinion was taken, twisted, turned completely into things I didn't say, then spat back at me as though I had broken both their arms.

Online is difficult, because honestly, most of us are not English grammars and even when those people are, we write on phones and such now and who really spends the time emphasising, bolding, so forth, when trying to get out of our head what's in there, and not forgetting or losing our train of thought at the same time... so the same result comes around with this splatter of text onto screen, and left to each persons interpretation on how they read it.

 

[sun seeker]

Part of living with PTSD is the struggle to learn to communicate effectively.

Is it?

(Because of the already-mentioned problems with interpreting the tone of a message on the board, I'll clarify that I am asking this because I am truly curious. I don't think I've heard anyone mention this before and I'd be interested to learn more.)

When I think about my struggles to communicate, they are mainly about feeling like an alien because my life is so different from the lives of people without the trauma. Other than that, I don't think I have a worse time communicating than anyone else does. So I'm interested in why you say this.

I do notice a whole lot of people especially with childhood trauma (myself included) asking whether what we are saying makes sense. A lot. But I'd imagined this was more about low self esteem than PTSD itself.

 

[Friday]

There are a handful of members at present who it seems, just can't help but respond with total waffle onto others threads, and responses to posts, and most of it typically has little bearing.

Guilty.

It's something I work on, get better at, fail miserably at...catch myself...work on, get better at, fail miserably at. Rise, lather, repeat.

Part of it is TBI, part of it is personality flaw, part 'Here's my bias front loaded; take what -if anything- applies".

I go rounds on a fair regular basis trying to balance those 3 things out on whether I should just stop posting altogether or say f*ckit people can ignore me or skip to the next post.

I've always fallen on the selfish side of it, and just counted on staff to tell me to knock it off if I'm being a twat... But the events of the past few days, members chastising the entire community for something only myself and a few others do? Seems like consensus is everyone else would be better off if I left.

@Alice.in.Wonderland, so that's what I've been processing with this; How much do I hurt people by being here? How much is me overreacting? How much is (or has been) me underreacting? I had no idea yesterday it was Catfight Round 47, and I'd missed rounds 1-46. Knowing that ahead of time would have changed matters. Knowing it now still leaves me with the same problem, since I've learned of it. I have no problem staying where I'm not wanted, that's just situation normal. Someone comes at me directly, same, no problem (I might lose my temper, or I might stay calm, but the only person I'm responsible for is myself). Someone splashes across the community & takes shit out on everyone because of things I do? Problem. I have to be in a certain kind of mood to stay where I'm hurting people, just because it helps me to be somewhere, or I'm learning something I want to be, and I'm not in that mood. I'm tired. So damn tired of hurting people.

Hell. This entire post is probably a case in point of when I just should have STFU. But since I've always regretted the things I don't say more than the things I do? Screw it. Other people have been posting where they're at. This is where I'm at.

 

[shimmerz]

Personally, I like it when my posts twist and turn. I like other's stories. I can relate to them more somehow. For the very few times that I have seen people ask for a posting to be back on track, I would say that most of us here don't find this to be a negative issue.

 

[Sideways]

@FridayJones - that right there, that's what's eating me. Your posts are a perfect example.

I see a post from FJ, I know what I'm up against before I've even started and yeah, there are some days that I don't have the energy and you know what, my issue, so I pick up my little pinky and just scroll past. How hard was that?

But most days, "Hooray, post from FJ", because the experiences you have are unique, the insights you offer are unique, and the sum package is all written up in a thoroughly enjoyable post. Yeah, it takes a few detours sometimes, but the detours have often been the most helpful parts in the end.

And here we are, a tonne of us getting paranoid about whether our posts are okay because of a very public spat between count-them-on-one-hand members, who are clearly both just having a hard time at the mo.

This forum is so successful because, clearly, the majority seem to think that the way people are posting is helpful. Being considerate when we post is great, but being paranoid just isn't going to work.

And whilst I respect the OP is always entitled to ask for minimal white noise, that's all good. But if I wanted to read about how to deal with ptsd with zero white noise, I'd go back to my textbooks. Textbooks are an isolating way to learn.

 

[UnKnown-Self]

First @FridayJones, personally I feel you are insightful and honest. I certainly hope you don't leave because you might be assuming that you are the source of the problem. That could be the negative message PTSD loves to send us. Something negative is said in a random way, which is not communicating but passive aggressive venting and some of us line up to say "I'm the asshole, I'm the selfish one and the list is endless. Someone had an opportunity to bring up a worthy topic but just didn't know how to go about it in a healthy way that would make us all stronger as a group.. If someone doesn't know, they are not capable. I am not judging just making an observation. If you left, you would be not only hurting the group but yourself as well.
You are never responsibility if someone gets hurt here on the forum. It a place for f*cked up people. And f*cked up people sometimes say and or some f*cked up things. I know I do and if you think you do to, we're both in the right place.

 

[ladee]

I have learned so much from this thread. I say thank you @Alice.in.Wonderland , because a few things have come to light that may have just been ignored. I myself say," I hope this makes sense" Because in my head I know what i want to say, but it doesn't always get printed the way my mind sees it....
I know I didn't take any of the 'cat fight' personal.. even when 'blanket statements' were made.. but I have learned a lot.... I feel good healthy exchange like this is good for us, or I will say it is good for me. Like was said, to learn, change some things if we are not communicating well, and as long as we can keep in mind, we are here to receive and give help... things get complicated..
Pretty much everyone on the planet is stressed right now. So many uncertainties, fears, unmet needs, just in our daily lives, without the PTSD shadow following us everywhere.
I still wouldn't leave here... this issue is temporary... and our need for each other will remain.... I hope we all take something positive from this and just be a tad more responsible, be kind and supportive to each other. I am not a Pollyanna by any stretch of the imagination... and do not see the world thru rose colored glasses...but being kind and supportive really costs us nothing....
This is my safe place. Real people doing life... I belong here. And am so grateful to have learned from this thread...

 

[sun seeker]

Someone splashes across the community & takes shit out on everyone because of things I do? Problem. I have to be in a certain kind of mood to stay where I'm hurting people, just because it helps me to be somewhere, or I'm learning something I want to be, and I'm not in that mood. I'm tired. So damn tired of hurting people.

Hey @FridayJones... I also only came in on round 47, and seem to have missed some of that too, because anything you might have done wrong in any of it is a blank in my memory. I'm just going to say something that I think you will be able to hear, because it's the kind of thing you might say and have said a gazillion times that you appreciate other people saying to you: You're projecting here. It's possible you might have said something that hurt one person, or a couple of people... or it's possible that said people were having a hard day and took what you said the wrong way. I'd have to go back and study both threads to even have an opinion here. But to say that you are staying where you are hurting people? Whoa. Hold on a minute. At least 99% of the time, your posts brighten my day. Even when I can gather you're having a lousy time of it, you have a way of expressing yourself that is unique, honest, often funny when it isn't tragic, and frequently educational. You obviously put a lot into your posts and are generous about sharing your point of view and your wealth of information on all kinds of topics. There's a kind heart in there, I can tell. Do I always agree with you? No. We have fairly different views on a lot of things. That's okay. That's what diversity is all about. In my opinion, and I would guess the opinions of most of us if we were to take a poll, you make us all richer by being here.

So... quit the projecting and stick around. So there. :shifty::sour:

 

[UnKnown-Self]

@sun seeker who said "I don't think I've ever heard anyone say this before and I'd be interested to learn more."
I feel PTSD & low self esteem go together like peanut butter and jelly.
My experience is that I was raised with the belief no one cared what I thought, felt or said. I adopted that belief because there were times I did try to share my opinion and more often than not I was answered with a well practiced smack in the mouth followed by "who asked you?" My father was especially adept at this because he would backhand us with the hand he wore his high school ring on and his aim was impeccable.
I was never exposed to polite conversation or affectionate bantering. Being the youngest, I was abused by my siblings as well as my parents. My one weapon was watching and when the timing was right, I would say or do something to push their buttons and their reaction would get them in trouble It was an atmosphere of conquer and divide and no one could be trusted. Our family didn't have "conversations " everyone talked at once getting louder and louder and no one ever listened.
In school, if I was called to write on the board, it was a walk of shame because I could hear the cruel whispers and snickers since my hair was tangled, clothes dirty and either I was absent so much I didn't know the answer or my shame pushed them right out of my head. I never had the relationships children often have with a childhood friend because I was the kids parents wanted their kids away from. I isolated most of my life so not much chance for socialization.
My anxiety is so high I often don't hear what someone says and respond in a way that makes it obvious. I repeat myself too many times because I'm unsure if I was understood.. I tend to ramble because the silence makes me edgy. Maybe I'm the only one who has trouble communicating because of their PTSD and that's why you never heard of it.. I only know what I live and how my PTSD affects me.

 

[sun seeker]

Maybe I'm the only one who has trouble communicating because of their PTSD and that's why you never heard of it.

That all makes perfect sense actually. I hear you saying:
a) Your family didn't model good communication. Rather the opposite.
b) Anxiety makes it hard to take in what others say.
c) You're not sure if others understand you (because you were rarely if ever understood by your family, I'm guessing).
d) You are uncomfortable with silence and feel the need to fill it, then get uncomfortable and feel you've talked too much.
d) School made the effects of what was going on at home even worse.
e) You were used to abuse if you tried to state your opinion, which understandably leads to anxiety in the present.

That all makes a lot of sense as to why it would be hard to communicate now. I'm just not sure how much of this is due to PTSD itself and how much to growing up in a (very) dysfunctional environment. Of course there's some crossover because the abuse caused the PTSD. It's just that there are lots of families that are dysfunctional and don't model good communication, without being outright abusive, and people who grew up in those families have trouble communicating too. It's the link between communication difficulties and PTSD that I was curious about. The link between growing up in a dysfunctional family and difficulty communicating is clear to me.

I think you communicated all that just fine, by the way.

 

[anthony]

Communication is part and parcel with PTSD. You have it, you get PTSD, it is often another aspect that goes to shit for you due to symptoms. You become used to communicating differently with PTSD, until you start healing, then you discover the issue, more often than not, if present.