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Not Sure If I Am Being Childish, Or What?
- Post starter Lady of Longbourn
- Start date
- Status
Iam,
Exactly! These things that we do to hurt each other are inexcusable, but we just don't need to fight them every step of the way with vigor like we tend to do. And it is very hard to "see" what you are doing to others. Every time my boyfriend stomps away now, I just let him go. My mom started making a hand gesture, which I've picked up, where she fills a virtual ballon with stress or anger, and flicks it out into the atmosphere. I added to that stress relieving technique by telling my boyfriend that all things will be considered and then released in my balloons, but that I am keeping a virtual file of our actions and reactions to be later addressed. I don't want to fight about changing anything. If it is able to be changed, then great. But if it's not, I will base my decisions on which of those things in the "not changing" list that are most important to me.
I try to confront my boyfriend every time he is hurtful, rude, or just plain immature. My problem is having the ability to not add to the simple issue. Last night he called from Lowe's and asked me to go look at what size furnace filter we needed. I was a jerk, and had to comment on his refusal to do an immediate favor for me the night before. I was compelled to make the comparison, and I'm sure it set the tone for what happened next. I was at school online, and took about 5 minutes to go downstairs; I told him I would take that time. All in all, I texted him back with the info exactly 10 minutes after the call. He stepped in the door 3 minutes after I sent the text, and immediately came upstairs and barked "Thanks for checking on that for me"!! It was not a sincere gesture of gratitude in the least, and my emotional barrier went up. He didn't receive the text because of a gliche I suppose, and believed I hadn't done it all. It ended up being a short spat; one I stepped away from very quickly (7 minutes). But had I not made the comparison in the first place, I'm not sure he would have reacted to not receiving the info he wanted the way he did.
Nutshell; It was not fair that he refuse to do a favor, and then ask one of me. I chose to confront him on the rules of fair treatment; give and take; at an inappropriate time. He was rude and out of line when he came home. Although I might have better handled the situation by not making the comparison, I couldn't take it back. My comparison and his sarcastic gratitude were both inexcusable. The trouble is that while I see where I made my mistake, he cannot. And I can't force him to be remorseful because he feels justified by what I did. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Did I deserve to be spoken to that way? No. Could I have chosen not to compare the favors? Yes. Should I have? That one I'm not sure of; was it just bad timing? I have decided to be happy with the fact that I stood up for myself, and let the rest go for now. His inability to be accountable for his own actions and words will simply go in the virtual file. I can't change that in him. Maybe he'll learn how to be accountable without damaging his own self esteem in the future, I can't form a conclusion one way or another at this point. I am grateful for the efforts that he makes, but I still have to consider the things that just aren't working for us. I'm hoping that my virtual file will contain more good than bad, but I have to be realistic in thinking that he may not be the right person to be my carer.
I've only been in this relationship for 3 years, and we have no children together. You on the other hand have a lot more at stake with 33 years of marriage. I can't give experienced advice in any form, but to say that I believe you are moving in the right direction, and to keep on using these methods. I do agree with you that we should all be clear and voice our intentions verbally. I've been doing that a lot more. I tell my boyfriend specifically why I'm leaving his company (withdraw). Whether it's because being near him is stressful and emotional at the time, or simply because his choice of TV shows is deplorable in my opinion and I'd rather go play Warcraft or get on the forums. I've made it clear that if he wishes to perk up and be nice, I will stay with him in the room, but that I do not wish to be "mad". The choice is his. I've also told him that he is more than welcome to interrupt me with invitations to do or watch something else. I am simply doing what I need to do to be happy. I tell him; "It has nothing to do with you personally". I'm trying very hard to keep the descriptions of my intentions simple and impersonal, although I'm not always successful there. Rather than say "he's stressing me out, and making me want to go upstairs", I tell him that "I'm not in control of my emotions right now, and I need to go relax my brain upstairs". Blame is such an evil beast, and it runs rampid in our home. No one wants to take responsibility for their actions; someone always made them do it. I've been guilty in the past, but not anymore; I control what upsets me. Apologies are so much easier when you can understand symptoms and faulty thinking due to PTSD. But we still have to get a rein on them to ensure our futures.
I am no stranger to emotional abuse. My father is the master with his forked tongue and apparent pleasure at hurting people. I picked up very bad habits of tearing people apart, and I'm an expert at how that feels to be torn apart. It IS a form of abuse that not too many will give credit to because there are no outward signs of it. Words don't bruise our skin, they bruise our hearts and minds, and no one can see that. I, for one, will no longer take part in it. It is very hard to hear hurtful things said out of anger or frustration, and not retaliate when I know I could eat him alive... and have done so. Walking away, whether you are truly withdrawing or not, just might be the best thing to do in these situations.
The important thing to remember is that "You can't unring a bell". Even words can leave lasting scars that destroy marriages and relationships. It may feel great to shout some terrible slam, and get the last word in that one time. But in the end, we have to ask "What did we want out of this". It certainly wasn't to destroy our marriage or relationship, so that little bit of temporary satisfaction really bit us in the butt in reality.
You're well on your way to recovery and management; I'm proud of you.
~Meli
Exactly! These things that we do to hurt each other are inexcusable, but we just don't need to fight them every step of the way with vigor like we tend to do. And it is very hard to "see" what you are doing to others. Every time my boyfriend stomps away now, I just let him go. My mom started making a hand gesture, which I've picked up, where she fills a virtual ballon with stress or anger, and flicks it out into the atmosphere. I added to that stress relieving technique by telling my boyfriend that all things will be considered and then released in my balloons, but that I am keeping a virtual file of our actions and reactions to be later addressed. I don't want to fight about changing anything. If it is able to be changed, then great. But if it's not, I will base my decisions on which of those things in the "not changing" list that are most important to me.
I try to confront my boyfriend every time he is hurtful, rude, or just plain immature. My problem is having the ability to not add to the simple issue. Last night he called from Lowe's and asked me to go look at what size furnace filter we needed. I was a jerk, and had to comment on his refusal to do an immediate favor for me the night before. I was compelled to make the comparison, and I'm sure it set the tone for what happened next. I was at school online, and took about 5 minutes to go downstairs; I told him I would take that time. All in all, I texted him back with the info exactly 10 minutes after the call. He stepped in the door 3 minutes after I sent the text, and immediately came upstairs and barked "Thanks for checking on that for me"!! It was not a sincere gesture of gratitude in the least, and my emotional barrier went up. He didn't receive the text because of a gliche I suppose, and believed I hadn't done it all. It ended up being a short spat; one I stepped away from very quickly (7 minutes). But had I not made the comparison in the first place, I'm not sure he would have reacted to not receiving the info he wanted the way he did.
Nutshell; It was not fair that he refuse to do a favor, and then ask one of me. I chose to confront him on the rules of fair treatment; give and take; at an inappropriate time. He was rude and out of line when he came home. Although I might have better handled the situation by not making the comparison, I couldn't take it back. My comparison and his sarcastic gratitude were both inexcusable. The trouble is that while I see where I made my mistake, he cannot. And I can't force him to be remorseful because he feels justified by what I did. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Did I deserve to be spoken to that way? No. Could I have chosen not to compare the favors? Yes. Should I have? That one I'm not sure of; was it just bad timing? I have decided to be happy with the fact that I stood up for myself, and let the rest go for now. His inability to be accountable for his own actions and words will simply go in the virtual file. I can't change that in him. Maybe he'll learn how to be accountable without damaging his own self esteem in the future, I can't form a conclusion one way or another at this point. I am grateful for the efforts that he makes, but I still have to consider the things that just aren't working for us. I'm hoping that my virtual file will contain more good than bad, but I have to be realistic in thinking that he may not be the right person to be my carer.
I've only been in this relationship for 3 years, and we have no children together. You on the other hand have a lot more at stake with 33 years of marriage. I can't give experienced advice in any form, but to say that I believe you are moving in the right direction, and to keep on using these methods. I do agree with you that we should all be clear and voice our intentions verbally. I've been doing that a lot more. I tell my boyfriend specifically why I'm leaving his company (withdraw). Whether it's because being near him is stressful and emotional at the time, or simply because his choice of TV shows is deplorable in my opinion and I'd rather go play Warcraft or get on the forums. I've made it clear that if he wishes to perk up and be nice, I will stay with him in the room, but that I do not wish to be "mad". The choice is his. I've also told him that he is more than welcome to interrupt me with invitations to do or watch something else. I am simply doing what I need to do to be happy. I tell him; "It has nothing to do with you personally". I'm trying very hard to keep the descriptions of my intentions simple and impersonal, although I'm not always successful there. Rather than say "he's stressing me out, and making me want to go upstairs", I tell him that "I'm not in control of my emotions right now, and I need to go relax my brain upstairs". Blame is such an evil beast, and it runs rampid in our home. No one wants to take responsibility for their actions; someone always made them do it. I've been guilty in the past, but not anymore; I control what upsets me. Apologies are so much easier when you can understand symptoms and faulty thinking due to PTSD. But we still have to get a rein on them to ensure our futures.
I am no stranger to emotional abuse. My father is the master with his forked tongue and apparent pleasure at hurting people. I picked up very bad habits of tearing people apart, and I'm an expert at how that feels to be torn apart. It IS a form of abuse that not too many will give credit to because there are no outward signs of it. Words don't bruise our skin, they bruise our hearts and minds, and no one can see that. I, for one, will no longer take part in it. It is very hard to hear hurtful things said out of anger or frustration, and not retaliate when I know I could eat him alive... and have done so. Walking away, whether you are truly withdrawing or not, just might be the best thing to do in these situations.
The important thing to remember is that "You can't unring a bell". Even words can leave lasting scars that destroy marriages and relationships. It may feel great to shout some terrible slam, and get the last word in that one time. But in the end, we have to ask "What did we want out of this". It certainly wasn't to destroy our marriage or relationship, so that little bit of temporary satisfaction really bit us in the butt in reality.
You're well on your way to recovery and management; I'm proud of you.
~Meli
Meli,
It sounds to me that you yourself are well on the way to recovery. We cannot force another to see, accept or change their damaging behaviours. We can only work on ourselves. Keeping in mine what our ultimate goal is helps with holding our tongues and actions. I was physically, sexually and emotionally abused as a child and I can honestly say that the emotional abuse is/was the worst and most damaging. I do not want to perpetuate it either by being the abuser or the abused.
Keep it up as it sounds like you are making great progress!
Thank you so much for the encouragement Iam,
I am currently not in therapy, and one of the things I lost when I finished my PTSD program was hearing the words "I'm proud of you" and "keep up the good work".
The hardest thing I have found in this process is taking what I've learned and applying it to my actions. I too was emotionally abused by my father, and then by my ex-husband. Sadly, I see it coming out in my brother and his wife. I fear for my niece and nephews to the point of crying in private, and also confronting my brother at the risk of alienating myself from him. I can't allow it to happen in my presence; it triggers my own depression and violent tendencies. Sometimes I'm subtle and simply interrupt, changing the subject or diverting his attention to me and away from the children. But a few times I have blatantly said "STOP", and subsequently caused him to avoid me for months. I have made a promise to myself to not use namecalling or irrelevent descriptions to sway an argument, although I've been very guilty of that in the past. My boyfriend says that I have several personalities, and one of them is "Redneck Meli" where I'm overly confident, unemotional, and purely mean. I can whip off the most fantastic slams using the most poetic and embellished syntax with a fluent Appalachian drawl. Some find it humorous, and we even joke about it, but I'm not exactly proud of it.
I developed a competition with my father at a very early age; the "How do you like me now"? syndrome. The more he slammed on me, the better I got at putting it back in his face. I got so good at it that I actually started to instigate the violence with my tongue alone and paid dearly. When I'm in a corner, I'm capable of striking just as efficiently as a vipor; I'm quick and deadly. Every day is a struggle to manage that part of me. It was a way of life for so many years. My therapist told me how proud he was in one of session, after I told him I chose to throw biscuits at the wall instead of the dishes. It was a small and humorous adjustment to my temper, but one that has great safety benefits in reality. The fact that I gave thought to the damage I was about to do, even though I couldn't stop myself from doing it, shows a healthy improvement. A decade ago, I tried to beat my ex-husband with a piping hot cast iron pan over a practical joke I just couldn't appreciate. I could have killed him, and thank my lucky stars that he was as big and as fast as he was. He blocked my blows, ripped the pan from my hands, and shoved me in another room and held the door closed until I settled down. He thought it was funny, but it was a real eye opener for me during the next few hours. I gave the possibility of lethal damage no thought at all, and spent that time locked in our bedroom bawling my eyes out, wondering how I'd gotten to this dangerous place.
It is not in my nature to hurt people, whether by tangible weapon or words; that is to say that I do not receive satisfaction from, or desire to hurt people. But it is a mechanism I have honed to a point. In my experience, the emotional abuse always leads to physical violence. And that goes both ways. We are all human, and capable of it, no matter what anyone claims. The old adage "He/she couldn't hurt a fly" is simply bunk. No one is exempt from human nature. It all depends on where a person's threshold is. Some are never pushed that far their entire lives, but some are literally raised on the edge of destruction. Unfortunately I belong to the latter group. My therapist was extremely worried about the violent tones in my words, and I believe that violence began with emotional abuse. I'm so proud that now I view situations with compassion, and am able to take the personal attack and feelings of guilt out of my arguments. That is truly the key!
When someone spouts off a deplorable slam on me personally, I try to rate it. Usually I find that I could have done better, and rarely do I think "Good one". I find processing it this way adds humor to the situation, and allows me to keep my cool more often now. It's not unlike the off color comedies you find in the media. It is funny to watch people argue in that manner; not so funny when it's you on the damaging end. I also keep in mind that the opinions of others, even our most intimate and loved family and friends, are just that; isolated opinions, not the popular concensus. It just doensn't matter what everyone thinks if we are truly sincere in our intentions and actions. I make apologies where neccessary, and I stand by my own beliefs and opinions otherwise. I really have employed this, I just wish my boyfriend would realize it. And I, like everyone else, have my limits. He keeps going back to who I was in the past, not seeing who I am at the very moment of the conflict.
I can't force him, nor can I expect changes to occur any faster than I myself can deliver them.
I'm rambling now, and will leave you with well wishes.....
Thank you Iam, I really enjoy our conversations.
~Meli
I am currently not in therapy, and one of the things I lost when I finished my PTSD program was hearing the words "I'm proud of you" and "keep up the good work".
The hardest thing I have found in this process is taking what I've learned and applying it to my actions. I too was emotionally abused by my father, and then by my ex-husband. Sadly, I see it coming out in my brother and his wife. I fear for my niece and nephews to the point of crying in private, and also confronting my brother at the risk of alienating myself from him. I can't allow it to happen in my presence; it triggers my own depression and violent tendencies. Sometimes I'm subtle and simply interrupt, changing the subject or diverting his attention to me and away from the children. But a few times I have blatantly said "STOP", and subsequently caused him to avoid me for months. I have made a promise to myself to not use namecalling or irrelevent descriptions to sway an argument, although I've been very guilty of that in the past. My boyfriend says that I have several personalities, and one of them is "Redneck Meli" where I'm overly confident, unemotional, and purely mean. I can whip off the most fantastic slams using the most poetic and embellished syntax with a fluent Appalachian drawl. Some find it humorous, and we even joke about it, but I'm not exactly proud of it.
I developed a competition with my father at a very early age; the "How do you like me now"? syndrome. The more he slammed on me, the better I got at putting it back in his face. I got so good at it that I actually started to instigate the violence with my tongue alone and paid dearly. When I'm in a corner, I'm capable of striking just as efficiently as a vipor; I'm quick and deadly. Every day is a struggle to manage that part of me. It was a way of life for so many years. My therapist told me how proud he was in one of session, after I told him I chose to throw biscuits at the wall instead of the dishes. It was a small and humorous adjustment to my temper, but one that has great safety benefits in reality. The fact that I gave thought to the damage I was about to do, even though I couldn't stop myself from doing it, shows a healthy improvement. A decade ago, I tried to beat my ex-husband with a piping hot cast iron pan over a practical joke I just couldn't appreciate. I could have killed him, and thank my lucky stars that he was as big and as fast as he was. He blocked my blows, ripped the pan from my hands, and shoved me in another room and held the door closed until I settled down. He thought it was funny, but it was a real eye opener for me during the next few hours. I gave the possibility of lethal damage no thought at all, and spent that time locked in our bedroom bawling my eyes out, wondering how I'd gotten to this dangerous place.
It is not in my nature to hurt people, whether by tangible weapon or words; that is to say that I do not receive satisfaction from, or desire to hurt people. But it is a mechanism I have honed to a point. In my experience, the emotional abuse always leads to physical violence. And that goes both ways. We are all human, and capable of it, no matter what anyone claims. The old adage "He/she couldn't hurt a fly" is simply bunk. No one is exempt from human nature. It all depends on where a person's threshold is. Some are never pushed that far their entire lives, but some are literally raised on the edge of destruction. Unfortunately I belong to the latter group. My therapist was extremely worried about the violent tones in my words, and I believe that violence began with emotional abuse. I'm so proud that now I view situations with compassion, and am able to take the personal attack and feelings of guilt out of my arguments. That is truly the key!
When someone spouts off a deplorable slam on me personally, I try to rate it. Usually I find that I could have done better, and rarely do I think "Good one". I find processing it this way adds humor to the situation, and allows me to keep my cool more often now. It's not unlike the off color comedies you find in the media. It is funny to watch people argue in that manner; not so funny when it's you on the damaging end. I also keep in mind that the opinions of others, even our most intimate and loved family and friends, are just that; isolated opinions, not the popular concensus. It just doensn't matter what everyone thinks if we are truly sincere in our intentions and actions. I make apologies where neccessary, and I stand by my own beliefs and opinions otherwise. I really have employed this, I just wish my boyfriend would realize it. And I, like everyone else, have my limits. He keeps going back to who I was in the past, not seeing who I am at the very moment of the conflict.
I can't force him, nor can I expect changes to occur any faster than I myself can deliver them.
I'm rambling now, and will leave you with well wishes.....
Thank you Iam, I really enjoy our conversations.
~Meli
- Post starter
- #18
Lady of Longbourn
VIP Member
I will reply...but I can have very short attention span...so please excuse me!
I think your attention span doesn't seem too bad here, Ayesha. It took aWHILE to get some of those paintings out, and I still think about the one you did with the religious theme. It was just a good piece, you know? If you can manage the concentration ( although I'm not always able to sit still very long ) the conversation up there is really good. Of course, easy for me to say, since this stupid literal pain in my neck sometimes keeps me browsing here as a guest in the middle of the night. :) There's a lot of TIME then.
- Post starter
- #20
Lady of Longbourn
VIP Member
I will read them. Later today. My focus is awful when I just woke up.
Hello All,
I'm reading through my posts; I find that is a great way to better understand myself and assess whether or not I still feel a certain way. In one post I said that it is satisfying to get the last word in, or to make destructive and cruel comments to others when in an argument (but that it isn't beneficial to anyone in the end) (#15). Then in the following post, I wrote that hurting people is not in my nature; that I don't get satisfaction from it, nor do I desire to do it in the first place (#17). Hmmmm? Contradictory? Absolutely!
It's confusing to read two completely different takes on emotional abuse coming from one person. I read somewhere, or maybe it was in therapy, that loss of identity is a major symptom; or factor, if you will; in PTSD. I'm starting to understand that now, after re-reading my posts here, and seeing how differently I think from day to day. I really never thought about my identity before now, other than to know that when I was traumatized I lost everything that was truly "Meli".
Identity, to me, has never been about who I thought I was so much as who everyone else thought I was. In short; I have no idea who I am. That's a scary thought in regards to how I feel about myself at the end of my life. Will I feel as if I've served my purpose on this earth in the end? What was my purpose to begin with? Will I feel as though I did the best I could? Will I be satisfied with my achievements? Were those achievements even the results of my own personal goals? I don't know which goals are mine, and which ones are the expectations of others that I've adoped.
So let's make a complex statement about "Meli" because I'm sure we're all aware of the complexities in every one of us. Meli does not "want" to hurt people, but she "will do so" when her emotional balance is threatened. And Meli "does" find satisfaction in hurting people in such cases; it makes her feel strong and in control; but then she feels guilty about hurting "only" the ones she loves. In contrast, Meli feels victorious and protected; no guilt; when she hurts people that she truly hates or maybe doesn't know at all.
Hmmm? I don't know if I life that about myself. I'm thinking about it like it's a weapon that I carry; like it's a neccessity, and I'm skilled at using it. It feels like I'm proud of being able to protect myself that way... no... I "am" proud that I can do that. Wow, here's something else I'm realizing about myself. I have no idea how to protect myself in any other way. And protect myself from what? My own feelings of inadequacy, guilt, or worthlessness when someone else presents me with a questionable comment (and then there's the blatent slam, of course). I think it's all in the loss of control over my environment. My carer uses the phrase "I'm full", and I think everyone here can interpret that in the same way. There is a clear line in the sand where I transition from one "Meli" to the other.
My mind is swirling right now... UGH! I'm feeling on top of things because I'm seeing the reality in myself, and I'm feeling bad because I'm not really liking who I am in this respect. On one hand, I'm a tough cookie, and I know I can hold my own in a conflict; that fells good and powerful. But on the other hand, I wouldn't want to argue with me, and I'm disappointed that I can't brush most things off.
Sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..... :(
I'm going to start a thread in "PTSD Relationships" this morning. I'm going to call it "The Threat Response". This post is going too far off topic, and deserves its own thread. Please forgive me, I'm affllicted with long-windedness. ;) If you're interested, look up the new post. I could use advice on this one.
~Meli
I'm reading through my posts; I find that is a great way to better understand myself and assess whether or not I still feel a certain way. In one post I said that it is satisfying to get the last word in, or to make destructive and cruel comments to others when in an argument (but that it isn't beneficial to anyone in the end) (#15). Then in the following post, I wrote that hurting people is not in my nature; that I don't get satisfaction from it, nor do I desire to do it in the first place (#17). Hmmmm? Contradictory? Absolutely!
It's confusing to read two completely different takes on emotional abuse coming from one person. I read somewhere, or maybe it was in therapy, that loss of identity is a major symptom; or factor, if you will; in PTSD. I'm starting to understand that now, after re-reading my posts here, and seeing how differently I think from day to day. I really never thought about my identity before now, other than to know that when I was traumatized I lost everything that was truly "Meli".
Identity, to me, has never been about who I thought I was so much as who everyone else thought I was. In short; I have no idea who I am. That's a scary thought in regards to how I feel about myself at the end of my life. Will I feel as if I've served my purpose on this earth in the end? What was my purpose to begin with? Will I feel as though I did the best I could? Will I be satisfied with my achievements? Were those achievements even the results of my own personal goals? I don't know which goals are mine, and which ones are the expectations of others that I've adoped.
So let's make a complex statement about "Meli" because I'm sure we're all aware of the complexities in every one of us. Meli does not "want" to hurt people, but she "will do so" when her emotional balance is threatened. And Meli "does" find satisfaction in hurting people in such cases; it makes her feel strong and in control; but then she feels guilty about hurting "only" the ones she loves. In contrast, Meli feels victorious and protected; no guilt; when she hurts people that she truly hates or maybe doesn't know at all.
Hmmm? I don't know if I life that about myself. I'm thinking about it like it's a weapon that I carry; like it's a neccessity, and I'm skilled at using it. It feels like I'm proud of being able to protect myself that way... no... I "am" proud that I can do that. Wow, here's something else I'm realizing about myself. I have no idea how to protect myself in any other way. And protect myself from what? My own feelings of inadequacy, guilt, or worthlessness when someone else presents me with a questionable comment (and then there's the blatent slam, of course). I think it's all in the loss of control over my environment. My carer uses the phrase "I'm full", and I think everyone here can interpret that in the same way. There is a clear line in the sand where I transition from one "Meli" to the other.
My mind is swirling right now... UGH! I'm feeling on top of things because I'm seeing the reality in myself, and I'm feeling bad because I'm not really liking who I am in this respect. On one hand, I'm a tough cookie, and I know I can hold my own in a conflict; that fells good and powerful. But on the other hand, I wouldn't want to argue with me, and I'm disappointed that I can't brush most things off.
Sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..... :(
I'm going to start a thread in "PTSD Relationships" this morning. I'm going to call it "The Threat Response". This post is going too far off topic, and deserves its own thread. Please forgive me, I'm affllicted with long-windedness. ;) If you're interested, look up the new post. I could use advice on this one.
~Meli
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