General Not Taking It Personally v.s. Setting Boundaries

[Isabel]

I am getting confused about something that has been discussed here a lot. I have been reading here about how PTSD causes people to sometimes be mean and that we are not supposed to take it personally, but then again we have to set boundaries for ourselves. Seems like a paradox sometimes... Doing two opposite things at the same time.

It would be really great to get a list of advices. I have just vented to my boyfriend who has PTSD and has been kind of mean to me during three days now. Usually it takes him much quicker to calm down and be is sweet old self but now it is taking longer and I am getting tired of this. He tells me he is fine but he obviously isn't. I seem to know the difference better than him, especially because one of his symptoms is to be mean to me. Here are the things I have tried:

- Go out of the house. I went away for a whole day and was proud of that. I was feeling good and it was working until I came back and he was not better.
- Ignore his mean remarks. Doesn't really help, I feel like crap anyway.
- Defend myself when he says I am being mean to him. I never treat him badly although he might sometimes think so when he has his episodes. I explain to him that my intentions are not to hurt him and that I love him. Usually I cry at this point and am upset, that seems to upset him even more. I feel humiliated that he would think such bad things about me.
- Ask him how he is doing or if he feels better. That only upsets him. I am asking to be able to know how to act and what to do. He usually tells me he is fine.
- When I think he is better, I ask if he meant some of the mean remarks that he threw at me. I do this to be able to explain to myself how or why I allow him to treat my like that. That upsets him also and it makes him worse.
- Avoid him and stay in another room.

I am telling you. Although all those advices are fine and I would love to hear more of them, nothing is working right now and I don't know why I bother. How is he supposed to respect boundaries when he is to sick to do so? I have no idea when he will snap out of this episode, and he continuously tries to trick me into thinking he is fine.

Does any of this really work for you?
Any other advice?



Maby I am wrong but the way I see it there are two or three things that are quite important, at least to me:

He has to be honest about if he having an episode or not. I need him to tell me, even if I usually already know. This is important to me to know that he is respecting me. (Unfortunately though I am realising that the line between being fine and having an episode is not always clear.)

The other thing is he has to tell me afterwards that he didn't mean what he said and that he is sorry. This is also important to me even If I can guess it myself. I need this to be able to explain to myself why I let him treat me like that. He finds this humiliating but I don't see it like that. PTSD is not an excuse and you have to say you are sorry. I am really in love and would forgive him anything (and have forgiven), I just need him to say it.

I also would like to know what brought this episode on. Again I have an idea of what it could have been but I need him to include me. I suspect that if he would have shared his stress with me in the first place we wouldn't be having this horrible time right now.

So what do you think about my new plan? :rolleyes:
(Ask him to tell me he is having an episode, say he is sorry when he is better, and include me more in his stress).

The other advice are fine to try to get through the day but not really working for me in the long run.

 

[Nicolette]

Welcome to the forum Isabel

Does any of this really work for you?

Members have posted on here what works for them but that does not necessarily mean it will work for you and your boyfriend. I feel a little put off by you questioning whether what members have shared as working for them as not being true by the nature of your question. I doubt anyone would post something that doesn't work for the hell of it. Just my interpretation.

He has to be honest about if he having an episode or not. I need him to tell me, even if I usually already know.

The problem with this is if your boyfriend is in denial how can he be honest with you? If you can see him having an episode, as you call it, why do you need him to tell you? That's like me having the flu, coughing, spluttering etc and me having to spell it out for you. Bit silly if you ask me. On the other hand if you think he is why not ask nicely?...eg I ask Anthony is he sick...'sick' being the word I use where you use episode. He generally doesn't say yes but he definitely says no if he is not.

The other thing is he has to tell me afterwards that he didn't mean what he said and that he is sorry. This is also important to me even If I can guess it myself. I need this to be able to explain to myself why I let him treat me like that.

Ummm....it sounds to me like you are being somewhat selfish here especially if your boyfriend is saying it humiliates him. If your boyfriend is genuinely sorry he will say it but you can't force an adult to do that and then convince yourself he meant it. If you can't accept your boyfriend has a debilitating mental illness and that is an explanation for his behaviour...him being forced to say sorry will not cut it. You are kidding yourself.

Bottom line also, how he treats you and what you accept is your responsibility. Getting an explain as to why you are being abused does what? Perpetuates the abuse cycle? There is no excuse and you should be working towards teaching your boyfriend this behaviour is not acceptable (boundaries) rather than searching for a reason for it (abuse).

I also would like to know what brought this episode on. Again I have an idea of what it could have been but I need him to include me. I suspect that if he would have shared his stress with me in the first place we wouldn't be having this horrible time right now.

Wow, you have a lot to learn about PTSD. How can your boyfriend tell you what brought on the episode if he is not sure himself. If you sit back and watch you will learn to see what might cause some episodes and then you can work on making that better together. In my opinion it is selfish of you to want him to include you when he is having an 'episode'. Sometimes an 'episode' can represent the difference between life and death and your only concern is to be included? The best thing you can do is give him his space during these times and not hound him to tell you what is going on. You are not dealing with a normal person's thinking here. Their brains overload from stress and it sounds to me you are just adding to it.

I strongly recommend you read more about PTSD as while sharing stress may help on occasion your boyfriend has to learn to manage himself and nothing you do will change that....he has to want to.

Ask him to tell me he is having an episode, say he is sorry when he is better, and include me more in his stress.

The other advice are fine to try to get through the day but not really working for me in the long run.

I get the impression you are trying to make this all about you rather than you accepting his illness and then learning to work together on improving things. All I have heard is what you want to make your life better. Living with someone with PTSD is no fairtale nor is it something you can control.

 

[malibran]

Hello, I have a few ideas..hope they help.

He has to be honest about if he having an episode or not. I need him to tell me, even if I usually already know. This is important to me to know that he is respecting me. (Unfortunately though I am realising that the line between being fine and having an episode is not always clear.)

YES BECAUSE HE MUST TAKE RESPONSIBILITY AS SOON AS HE CAN FOR HIS BEHAVIOR SO HE HAS TO SEE IT OBJECTIVELY.

The other thing is he has to tell me afterwards that he didn't mean what he said and that he is sorry. This is also important to me even If I can guess it myself. YES HE MUST MAKE AMENDS I need this to be able to explain to myself why I let him treat me like that. He finds this humiliating

TOO BAD ABOUT HIM, HE MUST TAKE CHARGE OF HIS ACTIONS OR ELSE HIS PTSD WILL ALWAYS RUN HIS LIFE AND WILL RUN YOU OUT OF HIS LIFE.

but I don't see it like that. PTSD is not an excuse and you have to say you are sorry.

YOU BET!!!

I am really in love and would forgive him anything (and have forgiven), I just need him to say it.

YES HE DOES HAVE TO SAY IT TO YOU. HE MUST HAVE GOOD WILL TOWARD YOU AND NEVER DEVALUE YOU. NOT EVER. IF IT HAPPENS HE HAS TO APOLOGIZE.

I also would like to know what brought this episode on.

THAT MAY BE HARDER FOR HIM TO FIGURE OUT. IT COULD BE A SIGHT A SMELL A SOUND OR JUST A MEMORY OUT OF THE BLUE AS A TRIGGER.

Again I have an idea of what it could have been but I need him to include me.

CAN YOU TELL HIM WHAT YOU THINK IT WAS AND GET HIM TO LOOK AT THAT?

I suspect that if he would have shared his stress with me in the first place we wouldn't be having this horrible time right now.

RIGHT ON, BUT HE HAS A HABIT TO SUFFER AND HE FEELS AS IF HE OUGHT TO SUFFER ...THAT IS A PART OF THE HOOK PTSD GETS INTO A PERSON.

So what do you think about my new plan? :rolleyes:

GOOD BUT REFUSE O BE TREATED BADLY BY ANYONE.

(Ask him to tell me he is having an episode, say he is sorry when he is better, and include me more in his stress).

AND LOTS OF LUCK, MALIBRAN

 

[Frankie]

Hi Isabel,

First of all, what works for one might not work for another....so, you truly have to understand and notice how your boyfriend reacts to different situations and you will be able to see what might trigger him.

"I also would like to know what brought this episode on. Again I have an idea of what it could have been but I need him to include me. I suspect that if he would have shared his stress with me in the first place we wouldn't be having this horrible time right now."

This bothers me a bit Isabel, first of all there is no way he would want you to to be included....it would only stress him more, cause not only would he be going through a rough time with whatever is triggering him...but he would also have to worry and stress about you ???....

And if you really think him "sharing his stress with you in the first place" woud remove him from being triggered, then you still have a lot to learn about PTSD.....it simply doesn't work that way.....If that and love would help....my exbf and I would still be together....but it doesn't !

He will tell you about whatever stressed him in the first place, if he knows, often they don't know, it just happens....when and if he is ready he will talk....if not, don't push him to tell you....he might only pull away as that will only stress him more.

My exbf and I talked a lot....and he would tell me about what would stress him or trigger him....and he would tell me what he needed from me......so knowing that I could at least help him avoid certain situations....and we would adjust to whatever changes....but unfortunately not all the time !

About not taking anything personal and setting bounderies.......well, the way I see it is this.....when they are going through a bad "moment" they will probably say things they wouldn't normally say and yes, we shouldn't take it personally.....but there are differences in what can be acceptable and can be tolerated to what isn't....and that is something only you can answer.

I accepted his "dark" moments.....I just let him be...I knew he wasn't in a good place and I would just move away. I don't mean as ignore move away...but I would let him know I was there if he needed me.

Where I set my bounderies, was when he would have his car rages....that, I wouldn't accept nor tolerate and I would let him know. I say this often....and I will say it again "choose your battles" and that is what I did with my exbf.....I chose my battles with him and let go and not worry so much about the minor things !

"So what do you think about my new plan? :rolleyes:
(Ask him to tell me he is having an episode, say he is sorry when he is better, and include me more in his stress)."

Isabel, you have to truly understand that this is a mental disorder, all we can do is support and try to understand......this is not about us, but about them.....I often call this a "selfish" disorder....cause often it is about them, how can we better help them ? how can we better support them ? how can we give them a stressfree environment ? etc.....and this is the way it will always be.

He might be able to say "I am not feeling too good, I need space" and that should be enough for you to let him be......

Saying he is sorry ? Sorry for trying to deal with his disorder in the only way he knows how ? ..........hmmmm.....I don't know about that...I do know that at times my exbf would say "sorry"....but I never had to ask him to say it....and I never expected it either !

Isabel, again I will stress, only you can decide for yourself what you are willing to accept and tolerate.....Loving someone with PTSD is a very long, hard, and at times lonely road...you are the only one that can decide for yourself !

If he is taking meds, seeing a therapist and making the efforts to get better....then I think you should respect and support him, if on the other hand he does nothing to get better....then it is a different story all together.

Frankie

 

[sunshineball]

I only recently started being aware of the fact that I can't accept abuse hiding behind the ptsd excuse. I'm finding it difficult though to define when it's just an excuse and when it really is the cause. i read through a few topics here and definition that seems to form would be that i should hold him responsible for his reactions as I would a healthy person.

Forgive me for not remembering whose quote this is, but i just saved a few to help me make sense of it:

Pull away sure, have some time out, be negative, shut the world out for a little while but it is not right if a 'Sufferer' inflicts cruelness and abuse on a 'Carer', who is supposedly someone they love, and believe it is acceptable.

But when I'm trying to imagine it in practice - shutting me out suddenly for a week or two is not something i would accept from a healthy person. But okay, that alone wouldn't be that bad, let's go further - finally we do talk and he tells me that the reason he isn't talking to me is because he doesn't care anymore, that the conversation with me upsets him and is not fun anymore. He says all that in a very mean hurtful way. but if I ignore that, keep on talking and reminding him of positive moments, his arguments melt away. I feel like he only tells me he doesn't love me to see if I will believe it and when I don't contradict it he feels hurt that I really think he doesn't love me. But this hour or two of him pouring out that he hates me, doesn't love me and doesn't care - is that not abuse? Or am I trying to focus on myself too much instead of him? I'm so very lost in this.

 

[Nicolette]

Welcome to the forum sunshineball.

Forgive me for not remembering whose quote this is, but i just saved a few to help me make sense of it:

I wrote what you quoted and are touched that you found it of value.

 

[Lola]

The other thing is he has to tell me afterwards that he didn't mean what he said and that he is sorry. This is also important to me even If I can guess it myself. I need this to be able to explain to myself why I let him treat me like that. He finds this humiliating but I don't see it like that. PTSD is not an excuse and you have to say you are sorry. I am really in love and would forgive him anything (and have forgiven), I just need him to say it.

I completely understand what you are saying. My bf said some very hurtful things to me about 2 weeks ago. It happens when he detaches himself from me. Detachment is a part of PTSD and I understand that he can't always control it. The problem is not so much that he says he's sorry, but Did he really mean what he said? If he said them because he was detached, that's one thing, but if he said them because he meant it that's something completely different! Saying "I'm sorry" may be humiliating to him, but what about the humiliation he causes you by saying hurtful things?

My bf still has not apologised or taken back his words. I still haven't reached a decision yet about what to do next.

 

[Nicolette]

I still haven't reached a decision yet about what to do next.

That is what this thread is about....what boundary is right for you in relation to this behaviour? You can only be treated badly on an ongoing basis by someone if you allow it (speaking in terms of a consenting adult).

 

[Lola]

This is indeed what I am struggling with. I know where to set the boundary, but not sure what to do when he crosses it, as often happens. Is forgiving him simply, de facto, giving him a right to do it again? Not forgiving him would obviously end the relationship. So there's the dilemma that I'm yet undecided upon.

 

[Isabel]

I found this text in the information section, It is kind of what I was looking for:

"If a violent or aggressive episode does occur, try to keep calm to avoid ratcheting up the emotional tension. Tell your relative or friend firmly to stop their behaviour, and if this has no effect, leave the house until things are calmer. Tell your medical team about any threats of violence to yourself or others. After the episode, try to find out what may have triggered it so that you can try to avoid it happening again. Make it clear to your relative or friend that violence is not acceptable."

Love Isabel