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Odd Adult Son Tormenting Daughter
- Post starter Raj
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- Post starter
- #14
Justmehere
Sponsor
Sounds like your wife probably needs more support for herself so she can endure the pain of letting him go.
I would even be suspicious of supervised visits (unless maybe with a whole squad of police...:(); it sounds like he crosses boundaries even with supervision, so your other kids could easily have cause to not feel safe in their home, where they are "supposed to" feel safest -- and not feel like you value them enough to protect them. The safety issues cause changes in our "reptile brains" for many people. Also, not being protected by parents may get generalized by some deep part of our brain into stuff like "I'm not valuable enough even to protect from possible death". Those things can really set kids up to have ptsd now or later; their brain's ability to regulate emotion and stress may be damaged; they might not avoid future abusive relationships; they might have other issues for decades... it's really important to protect them now, their brains are especially vulnerable to this kind of stress as they are still developing. There is a lot of research showing these things now.
Various people here have had ptsd and other issues for many years due to abusive siblings from whom their parents did not protect them... (I'm one of those, there are others that I've seen here.)
I understand that it's very difficult for a parent to feel like they are "giving up on" a kid... The parents often feel guilt too for other reasons; maybe, "what should I have done differently", "there must be something else I can do", "maybe seeing how good people act will help"... then we hear "don't give up on kids" all the time. Which is good! but what does "not giving up on" mean, exactly, in this case?
Letting the older son have opportunities to abuse others really isn't helping him in any way! In a way, it may be letting him feel temporarily better, sort of like an alcoholic getting a drink... (That's how my brother seemed to me, emotionally, when abusing...)
Your 19-year-old is now an adult and responsible for his actions, whatever his disorder's cause (who knows what that was, your other kids aren't abusive...) It is very hard to know what can help certain disorders; being abusive is something that a high percent of people don't seem to decide to change about themselves. Ever. No one else can make them do it, either, and it can be hard to know whether they have truly changed or are just hiding it much better. Very tragic, but possible and important to consider; my brother is now 53 and still at it. I wonder sometimes if facing the fact of what he's done to others is just too painful to heal from and change? For him facing this pain perhaps would be in addition to facing having been abused himself, and the latter is very difficult in itself.
I am very glad you are willing to think about these issues.
Various people here have had ptsd and other issues for many years due to abusive siblings from whom their parents did not protect them... (I'm one of those, there are others that I've seen here.)
I understand that it's very difficult for a parent to feel like they are "giving up on" a kid... The parents often feel guilt too for other reasons; maybe, "what should I have done differently", "there must be something else I can do", "maybe seeing how good people act will help"... then we hear "don't give up on kids" all the time. Which is good! but what does "not giving up on" mean, exactly, in this case?
Letting the older son have opportunities to abuse others really isn't helping him in any way! In a way, it may be letting him feel temporarily better, sort of like an alcoholic getting a drink... (That's how my brother seemed to me, emotionally, when abusing...)
Your 19-year-old is now an adult and responsible for his actions, whatever his disorder's cause (who knows what that was, your other kids aren't abusive...) It is very hard to know what can help certain disorders; being abusive is something that a high percent of people don't seem to decide to change about themselves. Ever. No one else can make them do it, either, and it can be hard to know whether they have truly changed or are just hiding it much better. Very tragic, but possible and important to consider; my brother is now 53 and still at it. I wonder sometimes if facing the fact of what he's done to others is just too painful to heal from and change? For him facing this pain perhaps would be in addition to facing having been abused himself, and the latter is very difficult in itself.
I am very glad you are willing to think about these issues.
BloomInWinter
VIP Member
Yes. He is a predator and there is no upside for giving him access to vulnerable people. If you wish to see him, make those visits in a public place elsewhere.
Safety is first. It is highly unlikely he can be cured, and virtually impossible if he's doing nothing about it.
We can love people but know we cannot have them in our lives because of their behavior. It doesn't make us bad people for acknowledging the reality of risk.
Safety is first. It is highly unlikely he can be cured, and virtually impossible if he's doing nothing about it.
We can love people but know we cannot have them in our lives because of their behavior. It doesn't make us bad people for acknowledging the reality of risk.
I think @BloomInWinter has it right.
Arranging for future meetings in somewhere like a mall that has both witnesses and its own security present might be the way forward.
I don't know what the local cops in your area are like, there have probably been half a dozen instances this last six months in the US and one in Canada , of parents calling cops to help with a disturbed child, for the cops to arrive and shoot the child, then physically prevent the parents from administering any first aid until the child is well and truly dead. Tazings, excessive beatings etc also occur but get far less coverage. here's one of those instances http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...e-fatally-shoot-mentally-ill-nc-teenager?lite
While not "common" in a population of 300 million, It would be far better to arrange contacts in places where your son is less likely to have any oportunity to get out of control,
and if he does get out of control, it's a place where he is more likely to be restrained by people who would face full legal consequences if they used excessive force (cops tend not to face any consequences, even for massively excessive force), and there would be plenty of witnesses present too.
Arranging for future meetings in somewhere like a mall that has both witnesses and its own security present might be the way forward.
I don't know what the local cops in your area are like, there have probably been half a dozen instances this last six months in the US and one in Canada , of parents calling cops to help with a disturbed child, for the cops to arrive and shoot the child, then physically prevent the parents from administering any first aid until the child is well and truly dead. Tazings, excessive beatings etc also occur but get far less coverage. here's one of those instances http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...e-fatally-shoot-mentally-ill-nc-teenager?lite
While not "common" in a population of 300 million, It would be far better to arrange contacts in places where your son is less likely to have any oportunity to get out of control,
and if he does get out of control, it's a place where he is more likely to be restrained by people who would face full legal consequences if they used excessive force (cops tend not to face any consequences, even for massively excessive force), and there would be plenty of witnesses present too.
- Post starter
- #20
- Post starter
- #21
Total denial of anything done wrong in past or present, paid lip service to our requests. Nothing new here, I hope wife keeps resolve. Taking care of other two teens needs and my own issues this makes the earthquakes we have all the time a nice distraction. Wife used to be verbally abusive she actually saught treatment and is no longer that way, she even takes time out and ask if she was out of line.
Raj
Raj
- Post starter
- #22
Kintsugi
Sponsor
You are not a waste of space. You are playing advocate in this situation for your children.
It's tough. I struggle with the idea that my mother could love and worry for someone who was a serious danger to me; I suffered sibling abuse. She wanted to protect him as much as she wanted to protect me. It's difficult from my own perspective to see these facts compassionately. However, I can intellectually acknowledge that she feels compulsed to protect all of her children.
I'm sorry that your family is struggling with this. I hope your wife maintains her resolve as well. I hope you can see that you requiring safe boundaries is a courageous move on your part to ensure the safety of your kids.
It's tough. I struggle with the idea that my mother could love and worry for someone who was a serious danger to me; I suffered sibling abuse. She wanted to protect him as much as she wanted to protect me. It's difficult from my own perspective to see these facts compassionately. However, I can intellectually acknowledge that she feels compulsed to protect all of her children.
I'm sorry that your family is struggling with this. I hope your wife maintains her resolve as well. I hope you can see that you requiring safe boundaries is a courageous move on your part to ensure the safety of your kids.
You are not a waste of space at all; you are brave and honest. I am so glad that you are doing this for your younger kids, and it doesn't sound like the 19-year-old is anywhere close to actually taking responsibility for his actions.
This will be difficult for you and your wife for a while, I suspect; I hope you have local support too? Please keep yourself safe! You are a valuable, good person who deserves safety.
This will be difficult for you and your wife for a while, I suspect; I hope you have local support too? Please keep yourself safe! You are a valuable, good person who deserves safety.
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