Overcoming Self-hatred And It's Relation To Healing

[Tinyflame]

Could I ask a question out there?

I remembered a memory last night. When I was 5 I stayed at the beach 3 months. My eldest sister was to watch me, she didn't (I recall where she usually was), so I did my own thing, on my own. Obviously there was food. I recall only being evacuated from the beach once by a cop with a german shepherd (there was a storm), I was alone. Befriended another kid there (but though she was older almost felt like I was babysitting 'her'), did my thing. Chipmunks would come to me! :laugh: I don't recall fear. I think my dad was there overnight sometimes (we were in a camper). I remember him getting me up in the middle of the night to drive to a hospital a couple of hours away- he had a medical emergency and almost died.

I only recall my mom (or mom and dad?) being so angry when I was in the car coming home, because I apparently had a terrible sunburn- but it didn't hurt (in my mind, don't recall it ever 'hurting'- is that 'normal', also?). But you know a small child's skin. I had no fear I recall, being on my own etc. Is that 'neglectful'? (Weird word. I mean, it was just 'understood' my sis was there, she was 12 years older. She was partying, apparently, my mom said though I didn't think of it in those terms/ that way, I mean I didn't understand that). I mean, when one is 5? In retrospect I think I was lucky there weren't 'weirdos' around, though. I didn't feel fear that I recall just sometimes lonely. Especially since I did not have my dog with me. Well, more fear alone in the camper than out on my own. I don't remember people not being kind, and I don't recall asking for anything, I definitely think I dressed myself/ made my own meals/ made my own plans for the day (occupied myself). I also wasn't responsible for anyone else (there).

I mean, I realize it was irresponsible of her, but are examples like that 'neglect' when no one else (adult) was aware, I didn't say anything, and I don't recall being scared (mostly)? I already was practised at managing stuff on my own (mostly).

 

[Hope4Now]

Most very definitely neglectful. No question about it.

 

[Tinyflame]

Dear @Hope4Now, I just editted (added last paragraph). Is that still so? We overlapped posting.

 

[Hope4Now]

Yes. It was neglectful (seriously) for your parents to leave you in the care of an older sibling. And it was neglectful of the older sibling to leave you on your own. Where were your parents? Having enough food etc. does not mean that you were not neglected. You were left to occupy yourself at 5 years old. In this situation you were endangered and abandoned. Child services have been called in to investigate families for far less than what you describe.

That said, how extremely resourceful you must have been to occupy yourself. I hope you can tell your 5 year old self how proud you are of her, but also acknowledge, perhaps, how lonely and lost and frightened and abandoned she must have felt (even if you don't remember). My heart goes out to her. 5 years old is very, very young. 5 year olds need people who care for them to play games with them, push them on the swings, make sure they're dressed properly (and have on sunscreen!). They need to be hugged, and sung to, and read stories to. They need to be introduced to playmates. They need to be listened to and provided with the structure and support to gain their independence within the loving embrace of family and friends.

Here's a reality check for you: No parent I know would ever ever leave their 5 year old unsupervised even for an hour. No parent I know would ever leave their 5 year old with an older sibling or babysitter for more than an evening out without checking in to make sure all is well. You're talking a summer.

It sounds as if you talked about it at some point with your mother because you say she said your sister was out partying. Did that conversation happen that summer? Or at a later time?

 

[Tinyflame]

Thank you @Hope4Now . No, the conversation was years later as an adult.

No, it was quite complicated, in that my dad had to run a business in one town, my mom in the (a) different city. My dad was also terminally ill, and this had been a short-term (summer) plan, with the understanding and commitment from that sister that she was to be responsible for that (me). (More could be made in one summer and with less overhead, than year-round in the city. And of course, being self-employed equated to no pension, etc. They had gone in to self-employment to enable my dad to 'be' home, he worked extremely far away.) I think the partying just related to drinking, to be honest. Actually, I know it was.

I can't say it felt traumatic, not at all. I don't have much recall of it, I was shy but also made friends easily if they initiated it. I guess being from the city I loved nature, still do.

Someone had a similar post on the forum, I was kind of an amazing-in-a-little-way-small-fry. :) :barefoot:

Thank you. :hug:

 

[TimeToHeal]

Yes! Most certainly neglect/abandonment, bordering on child endangerment.

 

[Tinyflame]

I think something I understand though, and this has brought me some great help I think, is that (*all*) of our experiences make up who we are. But also, as a consequence, it taught me something very important: context. It sounds like a small detail, but for anyone alive perhaps it goes a long way in both understanding, forgiving and accepting. Very few things are as easy in real life to accomplish as they are on paper, or as one's efforts or hopes or wishes or plans may be. I have always been told I am unique, or kind, or interesting, or wise. But actually, I'm just the end result of all of these many different things.

And yet, I can look back and see how each generation became actually progressively healthier. And still, there was the presence of great love. It was never easy, it was rarely ideal. But nonetheless, something triumphed.

Maybe that's the part of the self-hatred vs self-love thing: without context we are likely to feel self-hatred, remorse, guilt, as regards ourselves, our 'own' adulthoods. But with context there is more room for compassion (not just for others but for ourselves).

Speaking only for myself, I am sure there have been times my behaviour, including trying to deal with ever-present ptsd, has fallen very short of the mark I feel is the minimum, or I've been a source of frustration or even made no sense at all to others. But even that view (of myself) is without context really. Context means so much. Self-hate has no context, therefore no self forgiveness or self-empathy. With others, we (I) view a wider picture (unless I rush to judgment), even if I don't agree I can see or understand 'why' less than ideal situations unfold. For one thing, these are very much 'crisis' situations. My analogy would be, in a small way, how one responds calling an ambulance or in a fire: what do we say, and do? How much do we remember? For example, yes we bring a loved ones meds to the hospital, but do we remember their coat and shoes? Or in a fire, do we grab our insurance policy or our photographs? We simply do the best we can in unexpected, un-planned for, and extremely difficult situations.

It reminds me of a different example, that movie with Russel Crowe about whistle-blowing on the tobacco companies. The real man's life and that of his family was threatened. He (the star witness of course) ends up having a 'meltdown' with his wife, one of the prosecutors says 'This is the guy we're relying on?!!" But the other prosecutor says, "Ordinary people under extraordinary stress". I so 'get that'. I will never say "I would never..", because I know the closest I can say is "I have never been to the point of.. (yet. And hopefully never will.)" If one has been there, or in it, you 'get' the why's and where-fors.

Yay. I think I (we) struck gold. Context. :) I think self-hate feels like, or is in, the present, but it's genesis is back to reviewing the past (anything other than the current 'now') without context.

I think I can (I would like to) just drop the self-hate and 'be'. :)

 

[Tinyflame]

There is something beautiful, and yet excrutiatingly horrible, to have a realization of one's own or their loved one's 'finiteness' or numbered days. On one hand every moment is appreciated and soaked up, on the other the awareness of the future excrutiating loss is there as well. And somewhere in between is 'hope', and living each moment day-by-day, but without so many of the things we take for granted. It's a different sort of reality: plans go out the window, sacrifices are made, concessions are made, everything stays in a certain state of flux one adapts to. You see I understand: my dad's biggest worry at that moment was providing for my mom (and 4 kids) and what his death meant in terms of what he left behind, and the terrible fear he experienced knowing he was helpless to change it, and he dealt with the reality by working. My mom understood my dad implicitly, but knew she could not change his mind so supported him. My sister coped with it by drinking. And their intent or what they hoped to provide with the beach (and did, actually) was to provide me with a 'place' removed of all responsibilities, where I could be a 'kid', to have a normal life removed from the worries and realities that were there and the grief that was coming. Like the movie "Life is beautiful'.

Without context it is neglectful, within context it had a number of facets. It's very hard to provide what we want or need to, or are required to, (for others) under certain circumstances when our own hearts are breaking, I think.

 

[Valentino]

I think after sleeping on it, I have 'respectable habits', in so far as treating others/ decision making, etc. Am guilty of avoidance, running away or being inclined to wanting to be invisible however.

All you have to do is simply ask your inner voice/self-hatred what about you it hates or dis-respects. And if you're open to hearing, you'll get very clear and obvious answers. If self-hatred isn't loud enough, you could try to talk to your shame and guilt, ask yourself what you really genuinely deep down inside feel guilty about. What's really behind feelings of worthlessness and ineptitude?

Sometimes we over-complicate things, and over-intellectualize with too much rationalization from a distance. You need to get close to the actual raw emotions to properly translate the underlying needs and messages. It's just very hard to see things clearly when you're too far away.

May I ask, what exactly are examples of "proactive and responsive actions"?

Actions that are driven based on your own personal needs, wants or desires. Like assertiveness.

 

[Tinyflame]

Thanks @Valentino . I might be too far away, or I'm just not quite ready yet or it's too painful to ask (to get an answer), my mind is kind of 'blank', but that's right. Also some (self-hatred) just kind of "isn't there" now if I do recall context. Not that that replaces it entirely, but it's a Big start.

I also have to figure out needs, wants and desires. That's a start too. "Pro-active" I understand, I need to work on that. Probably why being spontaneous has always been equated with healthier (or more brave) steps for me. I don't overthink it and therefore just give up.

Thank you. :) :hug:

I guess what's kind of amazing too, is that we don't "need" self-hatred; that is, many people do not live having that 'identity' (what would be the word?). It just seems kind of 'odd' to not feel it, for once, that it is 'absent' for the moment. (In this case, "less is more". :) ). Wow, really strange, in a good way. :confused:

 

[Hope4Now]

Thank you for sharing your very introspective, and insightful thoughts.

Without context it is neglectful, within context it had a number of facets. It's very hard to provide what we want or need to, or are required to, (for others) under certain circumstances when our own hearts are breaking, I think.

Yes, you're right. What a terrible time it was for you and your family that summer. I agree that understanding the context can really help us. What it can't do is make it "all better" for our child selves. Understanding is "thinking" and we can't think ourselves into feeling differently. The reasons for your abandonment that summer are important--absolutely. It was a crisis. But you didn't understand any of it then, and that child part of you is still suffering from it. Perhaps that's why you started the exchange about that summer in this thread? Believe me, I speak from experience. The adult me who understands the context of my own parents' behavior has forgiven them. But my concept of myself was and remains deeply damaged as a result of their behavior. The inner child parts of me were hurt very badly and they need healing. Until I can find a way to heal them, I will likely continue to suffer from the damage.

 

[Tinyflame]

Understanding is "thinking" and we can't think ourselves into feeling differently.. But you didn't understand any of it then, and that child part of you is still suffering from it. Perhaps that's why you started the exchange about that summer in this thread? Believe me, I speak from experience. The adult me who understands the context of my own parents' behavior has forgiven them. But my concept of myself was and remains deeply damaged.. The inner child parts of me were hurt very badly and they need healing. Until I can find a way to heal them, I will likely continue to suffer from the damage.

Oh yes,dear @Hope4Now , I do understand and totally agree. Except for, I 'did' understand much then as well- I've thought that was a negative but it's rather a bit of a saving grace. But I agree, I won't be will-nilly carving around my hurt with a metaphorical scalpel any time soon! I'm sure there's lots of hurt, or deep damage, it's hard to write it even though I get on a 'roll'. But that's ok. That takes steps, not to be wary of it but respectful. I realize it has/ does or will cause further problems if not too. I have to go slow and kindly (if that's the word)?

But, you know, I always have strange things happen. I think the very next day after I posted this thread, this prayer came in the mail, for healing wounds of our heart and not to isolate, and for those who feel unworthy, unloveable etc, more than that I am just not quoting it exactly or entirely. Sweet because it's a Roman Catholic thing- Prayer to the 'Divine Infant'. But I thought, strange, much are my words/ thoughts but here someone else has expressed them, and put it in the mail before I posted. So, you know, if nothing else my life has always been a bit bizarre. :laugh: :notworthy:

I'm ok with all of this. Hurt per se (to me) is not the same as self-hatred. Self-hatred is rather final and unbudging (normally), hurts are just part (of me). We are a sum of a lot. :) :hug:

Thank you. :hug: