Oxygen And The Freeze Response

[Born to Run]

Oh so sorry @sun seeker :( Take care :hug: This stuff won't run away.

 

[shimmerz]

The freeze response elicits potentially lethal physiological changes (i.e. dramatic slowing of heart rate, cessation of breathing, and dropping of blood pressure) and I could not find these changes in catatonia.
- Freeze is about feeling numb, catatonia about feeling negative.
- Catatonia can not be triggered, as it is not a response; freeze can be triggered.

Okay, so from personal opinion and experience and diagnosis etc., these things are not quite 'right'.
The pretense I am working on is that TI can lead to catatonia but catatonia is at the far end of the spectrum.

My 'freeze' (TI) was about triggers. So was my catatonia. If the person I was with caught my freeze soon enough and took remedial actions, then I wouldn't go into full catatonia mode. If they didn't, I was down for days sometimes.

In both situations, my brain felt the same, like a never ending loop (based on the trigger). I was trying to sort out conflicting information and that led to freeze.

My body dramatically went into shut down mode in a physiological way. People couldn't feel my pulse, they needed to use a mirror to see that I was breathing, I didn't pee for days. The feeling was the same. My brain spinning the entire time.

That article that you are linking to is very good. Fear can do crazy shit. So as far as the article that sun linked up goes, it was poorly put together but I don't believe he is far off when he states that freeze is interchangeable with catatonia. I think people just understand the word freeze more.

 

[Born to Run]

Sure, I believe your personal experiences, and it seems a grey zone still scientifically. Maybe the problem is that catatonia has many different faces. The only person with catatonia I have seen was my mother in severe depression after suicide attempt. She was not frozen, but had rigid repetitive stereotyped behaviours that she kept on doing. Or could all catatonia expressions be considered frozen? You write that your "brain is spinning the entire time". During freeze my brain is not doing anything, but numb, nothingness.
I find this an extremely interesting topic, and wished there was more clarity. I do remember that my therapist, coming back from a conference, told me that trauma therapy is now also starting to be applied in other psychiatric illnesses, such as schizophrenia, catatonia. That also points in the direction that there is a trend to approach them as if both are on a continuum.

 

[Chava]

I don't know anything about catatonia, but the actual "freeze" response within the nervous encompasses a couple levels of shutdown...the "freeze" where senses are heightened but you aren't moving...all the adrenalize still ready to help you bolt (think of baby bunny freezing to not be seen). Then there is the deeper freeze (bunny caught by predator and goes completely limp before it is actually killed...body flooded with numbing chemicals that help it have a painless death). I think you shared a video sort of relating to this, @Born to Run ? I relate to super-alert freeze (short-lived states) and feeling totally blank and timeless...can always move though, however difficult. But speaking can be very physically difficult.

@sun seeker I hope you are okay. :hug: Not quite related but I've had lots of thoughts about breathing, vibration, and rhythm. Certain sounds and rhythms seem to help me "wake up" when it feels like I'm not working on the inside. I hope you have some sounds or feelings that can help sooth or ground you.

 

[Born to Run]

Yes @Chava you are right, that video with those graphs in it, showed what you mention. The first level you refer to is what would be tonic immobility, as you have muscle tone, and are still resisting; the second level my therapist calls faint, as it is the collapse state in which muscle tone becomes flaccid, and you give up, no longer resist and can faint. I experience the first level as you do, and recently am also experiencing the second level, which is near fainting. I feel much much more fear during level 2 as you have given up and think you are not going to make it. The numbness of tonic immobility I find often boring, but never loaded with fear, as you still think you have a chance.